To think a lot of MN are ableist?

[Sweetlifeofyours]

So I wasn’t going to post but as a mum with a disabled child myself I feel like I have to get things off my chest. I have read a couple of threads over the past week or so regarding mothers who are looking for advice and support for their disabled child/children (2 that stick out to me)

I was very sad to see that there were only a few posters who actually gave support and advice to the OP’s. The rest were in my opinion, downright rude and nasty and clearly just wanted to upset the OP’s even more for whatever reason.

As a mum with a SEN child, it is incredibly difficult and I myself don’t always get the correct help and support I need so to come on here and see that other women/parents show their (somewhat) true opinions of disabled children upset me.

I am completely 100% on board that autism shouldn’t be an excuse for everything, but surely some compassion wouldn’t go amiss to a struggling parent.

One of the worst things I read was a poster saying to the OP that they should make sure their child doesn’t turn into a sex offender because he enjoys hugs. Says more to me about the poster rather than the OP and their child.

I guess my AIBU is, do you think people (maybe especially on here) should have more compassion for the disabled community or have you read threads where you agree with the majority of comments (especially where we are talking about young children)?

I'm like 90% sure that thread was a wind up to try and whip up anger. There were details that didn't quite ring true from the outset and then OP acted like some sort of moustache twirling panto villain in the run up to it being removed.

It’s no longer Mumsnet a safe space for mums of all children but NastyNet.

I can’t believe how much it’s changed. Yet still they do nothing aside from sell advertising space.

It’s shocking that you think that a doctor or parents would advocate for having their child euthanised purely because of money. Unless you have walked in their shoes, you cannot possibly know why they have made those extremely challenging decisions.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4309136/

I am currently going through quite a brutal workplace route to getting reasonable adjustments as I have recently been diagnosed with a serious spinal issue and need to have these to stay in work.
The threads on here about reasonable adjustments are so so concerning. It's such a tough process to go through, that even those people with a formal structural spinal diagnosis struggle, I cannot imagine how hard it is for others.
You have my sympathies OP!

What’s shocking is the ability not to read my post correctly.

I was talking about a poster on a current thread suggesting that all newborns with profound disabilities should be euthanised as a way to save money. With no mention of parental consent.

I have a severely disabled child.

If you consider people with ADHD, autism, anxiety, hearing impairment, mobility issues, long term illness to have disabilities, virtually everyone will be disabled and/or be very close to someone who is disabled at some point in their life. It doesn’t mean they have a good understanding of all disabilities though. Why would they? I think the term ‘ableist’ is thrown around far too much on here. I know someone with autism who would definitely be accused of being ableist when it came to their attitude towards other people but then maybe it is ableist to make that judgement about them. I think people aren’t always very empathetic to other people’s situations but branding them with an ‘ableist’ label probably doesn’t encourage people to be more understanding.

That would be good advice if MN remotely cared about tackling rampant ableism on their site. i reported a poster who stated, in a series of posts and in no uncertain terms, that they believed disabled children were a drain on resources and should be euthanised because they were unlikely to ever be worthwhile members of society. MN said this did not break their talk guidelines. I and others also reported a thread in which the OP advocated forcably removing all disabled children and adults from their homes and families and placing them in large state run institutions to save money. This also apparently did not break talk guidelines. If suggesting the wholesale murder or incarceration of disabled people is deemed not to break MN rules then it is impossible to imagine what would.

Where's the compassion for children whose parents are a little bit too keen to put them on ADHD medication? Isn't it good that Mumsnet allows those counter views?

People with disabilities absolutely can be ableist though. Just call it what it is. If being ableist isn't ableist then what is?

Children need a diagnosis to get adhd medication. Parents can’t just choose to .

I don't think MN has a particular issue with ableism anymore that it has issues with any number of topics that get similar reactions.

It's an anonymous forum, people are more likely to say things they'd never say in 'real life' for fear of repercussions, they're more likely to be rude/mean/controversial for the sake of it, more likely to join a pile on to feel superior.

But you'll also get people with no experience of the issue at hand unhelpfully chiming in because they can, who simply can't relate to or sympathise with it.

But ultimately, YOUR child is obviously your priority, when other people must prioritise their own child.

If a child hugs or hurt another child, it doesn't matter if he's SEND or not - for the parents, for the victim, they don't care and they don't have to care, it's totally irrelevant. Another child should not hurt theirs full stop.

How the school and the actual parents, manage him is another issue, but being SEND is not an excuse or a reason, and it's not being ableist to say "it's not my problem, stop him from hurting my child ever again".

It's not being ableist. The condition of John Bravery, who is in now jail for attempted murder, is totally irrelevant to the little victim.

You can't expect other people to be understanding or excuse a behaviour.

Are you following the posts at all? Don't start a thread if you're not going to follow the conversations.

same happens to me a lot. I report posts which are clearly hate speech but more often than not, it doesn't break talk guidelines. Its really shocking. I don't know what happened to MN and the complete change in standards. I vividly remember the fabulous 'this is my child' campaign. this would not happen now.

I think that, when we are under pressure - as we seem to be as a society at present - sympathy/ empathy with others is one of the first things to go. We become protective of ourselves and ‘our people’, and less tolerant to anyone ‘other’.

It is no surprise, therefore, that racism, ablism and ageism are rife, and are more openly expressed. All involve less sympathy towards those who are ‘other’ by virtue of race, disability and age, expressed as a view that they ‘take, or are given, more than their fair share, leaving me short of what I need / would like’ - whereas in fact there is a shortage for everyone, regardless of age, disability or race.

Just not being empathetic to someone’s situation. The i-s-t bit is slung around to shut people up. It alienates people and will never win over hearts and minds.

Maybe it's not a good idea to try to get every post you disagree with deleted?

This upsets me so much. We had to turn off life support for our baby boy 2 years ago, his twin died a few days earlier - stillborn. We were told his quality of life would be deplorable. He had a couple of haemorages too, he was 4 days old and likely to die alone in the NICU before we could reach him if we were lucky. I absolutely didnt do this because of money ffs. All I wanted was to bring him home and his brother. But it wasnt right for him. My baby son had multiple organ failure. Disabled didbt even half cover it.

I have never met any parent who was in the NICU who didnt want to bring their baby home no matter what. Id have leapt at the chance no matter how disabled he was. But he was suffering. His last haemorage went to his brain. It was a grade 4

Why should someone who is just looking for a bit of support or advice on a messageboard be concerned with winning hearts and minds? People are responsible for their own ableism, including those with the cognitive abilities to engage in a discussion on the internet, even if they really really don't like being called ableist.

But a child who doesn’t learn boundaries will grow into an adult with no boundaries. His sensory impulses may be childish at 4, but at 24 some of those sensory impulses will be sexual. And those impulses will hurt someone else.

We have to teach boundaries before that happens or yes, without help they will assault someone.

I think you should work on your reading comprehension. I never said I ask MN to delete posts I don't agree with.

What is the longest possible definition of ableism please?

That works both ways though and there seems an inability by many to accept other people's struggles and why resentment or anger can build.

I have seen posters on here stating that they use their PIP to go to the nail salon and get their nails painted. They stated that they liked their nails to look nice, always had manicured nails before being disabled and this was a totally acceptable use of PIP.

If you're someone that is working all hours of the day, hasn't been to the nail salon in years and doesn't have the time to paint their nails themselves due to work/childcare commitments then this obviously will cause resentment. Your taxes are paying for someone else's luxury.

Any disagreement about PIP being spent on nail salons and other luxuries is wrong was met with cries of ableism rather than even attempting to understand why people that can't afford any luxuries feel angry and bitter about this.

Half the time people aren’t understanding the posts they complain about. We leap to assume a motivation which isn’t there, because of our own sensitivities.

We are in a fucked up place as a society and need to find a way through it. That will only happen if we really listen and consider other people’s perspectives. Not to win. Not to change minds. To understand and find compromises.