Why do I have to sleep train my baby?!

[Squirrel81]

My DS is 11 months old. He has ALWAYS been a terrible sleeper but me and my husband work very well as a team so although it’s not been easy we have managed. He also rarely is able to sleep in his cot for his naps in the day so I have to contact nap a lot which is challenging.

My priority, of course, has always been DS and I’ve done pretty extensive research on sleep training and concluded for my family it’s not suitable - I prefer to be responsive to my baby, and the research suggests that the impact on baby of leaving to cry is inconclusive - but I have decided for myself that there IS sufficient evidence it raises their cortisol and can impact brain development. I do not personally want to risk this, even more so because I have a sensitive baby (which people also eye roll at, as if I don’t know my own child). I do however have friends that have sleep trained and I respect their decision - and also understand not everyone has a set up as manageable as my own in terms of disruptive nights.

So my question is - why does everyone feel the need to tell me I HAVE to sleep train. I must do it or my DS’s sleep will be doomed for eternity. I feel incredibly judged for not sleep training, as if I am weak because I can’t allow my baby to cry & not responded to. As if I am not doing the best by him because if I did sleep train his sleep would be better quality.

I am so tired (no pun intended) of the criticism and it is making me doubt myself.

"Teaching your baby the skills to sleep through the night" - What skills and how do you teach them?

You sound the judgy one about sleep training tbh. Both my kids are sleep trained and I couldn’t give two hoots whether anyone else chooses to sleep train their baby or not, it really wouldn’t matter to me and I certainly would only give my opinion if I was asked for it. But you clearly aren’t managing the night wakes if you’re speaking about it to the point sleep training is suggested.

I respond to my children’s needs too btw, parents who sleep train aren’t monsters who ignore their child and it’s really insulting to suggest that is so.

I have a friend who had her child in a separate room from birth, told me not to BF; when I did, told me to stop, told me to let DD cry it out, told me so so many things. I was insane with rage, honestly. And very tired so it all felt terrible. She was incredibly judgy. They are both teenagers now. Hers is overweight, anxious, depressed and a HORRIBLE eater. Think Monster drinks instead of breakfast. Mine is great so far, fingers crossed.

Am I happy her child struggles? Of course not, she’s still a friend of DD’s and I love her. Do I believe my choices were right? Yes, I do. You can see that as being smug. I see it as being vindicated in my choices. For my child.

There’s quite a wide range of choices that are great. All the way from bed-sharing at 2 to shush-pat. But there are choices I don’t think are great; separate rooms from birth and CIO, all the way to bed-sharing at 15. And it’s OK to have an opinion. The people going on at OP are judging a perfectly normal and acceptable choice. Repeatedly.

I don't care if you sleep train your baby.

I will always however share my experience of sleep training at 14m, which I think is about as good as sleep training can be expected to go.

Night 1 - 25m. This includes my husband going in at a few minutes intervals and hugging him for half of the time. He woke twice during the night, quick cuddle, put down again and fell asleep.
Night 2 - 5m. One visit and long cuddle, small whine when he was out down. Two quick wakes and put downs in the night.
Three nights of straight down waving bye bye, one wake a night. Then 12h through, unless he needs us.

I find it very hard to believe that 15m of fussing over 2 nights followed by happily waving and asking for his cot.

People spout the "they don't cry because they know no one's coming" (usually with this emoji 😢).

I have never had someone explain why when my son is ill or teething or has a nightmare, he DOES cry out for us.

To me it's fairly conclusive that he just learned something that has helped him sleep, which is so important for development.

Sorry but you didn’t train your baby to sleep through from 11 weeks.

You’ve assumed that your good sleepers were made not born. They were born. The baby Jesus and all the little angels couldn’t have made DD sleep through at 11 weeks. She was subsequently diagnosed with ADHD which explains it. You were lucky.

I believe people who say they sleep trained a one-year-old. But 11 weeks? Nope.

For my son, it was that he doesn't need to fall asleep in my arms/boob then be transferred to the cot.

You lie down in the cot, you say night night, you fall asleep there.

It may help you to remember that babies don't know anything.

I don't think people can argue one way or the other very convincingly tbh, because all the measurable outcomes - future rates of depression, quality of sleep as an adult, levels of anxiety later in life etc - are so multifactorial.
I didn't sleep train either of my DC. They both coslept and breastfed until they were ready to stop. One has a very calm, placid temperament, and one has the temperament of a box of fireworks.
I wasn't sleep trained, and now I can fall asleep anywhere, at any time. But I have what a PP may have been referring to upthread by a "stressful temperament" 😬 But I also have quite low sleep needs and don't feel especially tired if my kids wake me multiple times during the night (also if you cosleep and BF, you don't really need to wake every time the baby wakes).
My sister wasn't sleep trained and has an (outwardly at least) lovely, calm temperament, but lies awake ruminating for hours every night.
DH was sleep trained and is crippled by anxiety day and night, and takes hours to silence his brain and fall asleep.
There's just so much more to it than whether you sleep train / breastfeed / play classical music to your baby / let them watch Paw Patrol. But people love to share their opinions and justify their own choices.
You do what works for you and your family, OP - it's nothing to do with anyone else!

Mine also slept through from 11 weeks. I know they're naturally good sleepers but it was 11 weeks of making the cot a nice, calming place for them to be. Being relatively insistent that that was the place they slept (i.e not giving up and bringing them into bed with me at 3am after a feed when I was exhausted), lots of patting, singing and reassurance etc. Structuring days around their sleep schedule so there was no overtiredness. It was intensive for the parent for long term gains. No CIO. I think this is what people mean when they talk about modern sleep training. The cot was right next to me in bed, I was holding their hand for much of the time, so there was no being left alone. I saw it as teaching healthy sleep habits, which have paid dividends. I am also an excellent sleeper, however, and I'm always surprised at how many adults have bad sleep/bad sleep habits.

I started our nap/ feed/ awake routines around 3weeks and DD1 slept from 11pm to 6am from 11wks, DD2 was a bit later. There was a bit of regression with teething at 4m but both slept all night from v young.

I'm not at all bothered if you think I'm lying, you are free to believe as you wish.

Ok can I just make it clear that I do understand there are ways to assist a baby to learn to sleep independently that do not involve crying. However, at least in the circle I am referring to, sleep training generally refers to gradual withdrawal or CIO (probably more commonly gradual withdrawal). This is what people around me (co-workers primarily) are referring to. And no I am not actually working at the moment I am on extended maternity leave until he is 2. So yes - I am in a fortunate position that I can afford to cope with less sleep.

Gradual withdrawal still involves leaving the baby to cry for periods of time - in increasing increments. Honestly, I don’t think that others have done the amount of research that I have done on cortisol and its impact on the developing brain.

Yes, this is a place I am using as an outlet to vent, that’s ok no? I can’t vent directly to my co-workers.
Nor can I explain the above as my reasoning because then it appears judgy. But without explaining the science - to them, I don’t understand what I am doing.

Mainly, I came here to get some reassurance from those that share my view and who have had success in the long term without sleep training. And I found those people 👍🏻

And that is fine but constant interrupted sleep is not good for your dc's development or anyone's health and wellbeing. Nevermind your relationship if one of you is up half the night.

Good quality sleep for everyone is important.

A thumbs up at the end always looks so defensive and pass agg, doesn’t it?

I don’t think you’re lying. I think you believe it was caused by one set of things when it was likely caused by another. You can’t lie about causation, because unless you did a double blind randomised control test, you don’t know what caused it.

When people say what they did to ‘cause’ their babies to sleep through very early, it’s invariably things the non-sleeper parents tried as well. It just didn’t work. People were full of helpful tips I’d tried before. Yes consistently, yes over time, yes repeatedly.

Think of it like this, my DD eats everything, never fussy, brilliantly varied and healthy in her eating. So I know the square root of nothing about helping a fussy eater eat. If I wander around telling AFRID parents to just leave the plate there, or sneak vegetables in, or try a new food regularly, they will rightly think I’m a stupid idiot. DD eats well because she was probably always going to, and did. I could have ruined her eating, feeding her crap. But she came a a good eater.

Yours came as a good sleeper. You are lucky. Have the humility to feel lucky and not attribute all of it to your excellent parenting.

Why are they telling you to sleep train. Is it because you are saying how exhausted you are? It surely can't be for no reason. My ds1 did not sleep through the night until he was around 5( except once when he was 1 and we thought something might be wrong so couldn't relax!) Ds2 was total opposite.Slept well,ate anything etc etc

Hard agree.

Sleep is essential for the development of the brain. I can’t help but notice poor sleepers are usually angry, highly strung children who cry a lot and lag behind their peers. Which shouldn’t be a surprise - they’re exhausted.

I never did, but DD was 12 when she left my bed!

Pretty sure I wasn’t replying to you, MrsTP, and pretty sure the scenario you describe isn’t the scenario of the person I was replying to. And it wasn’t me seeing her as being smug, she said she was smug, twice.

why is 11 months old the magic number?

as adults we often choose to sleep next to someone for comfort, and wake during the night due to any number of reasons, so why are babies/young children expected to sleep through and not need any reassurance of comfort during the night?

Very similar here too.

I feel like it would be a coincidence if it was just one child but it worked with all three of mine. They were sleeping 7-7 by 8 weeks, 6 weeks & 6 weeks.

Well either do the other stuff, which is what most people do, and is not CIO, or just resign yourself to broken sleep for 2 years? Maybe stop 'researching' /obsessively googling to reaffirm your own position cortisol and think about something else?! Not sure why you need reassurance if you're so commited to your own view. Heaven help when your kid has bigger problems (that you'll be better equipped to deal with if you've had some sleep).

Sleep duration and quality are heritable so no, three of your (related) children being similar is entirely consistent with genetics, not training.

I'm sorry, were you at the family gatherings? My SIL was absolutely smug.

Of course I was struggling, my son woke hourly for 18 months. But as I said sleep training doesn't align with my values so I put up with the struggle. So having SIL say things like 'Oh you know he doesn't need milk after 6 months old, he's just using you as a dummy... He wakes so often because he knows you'll just give him what he wants... I could never wake up before 7am and my daughter knows not leave her room because we trained her that way... If you don't sleep train he'll never know how to sleep alone etc.'

Like I said I get on great with my SIL, we're both fantastic mothers who do things differently. However, it absolutely feels like an I told you so moment now that she's experiencing it for herself as she has acknowledged that. I would never make her feel like what she is doing is wrong but I can't help feeling smug when she talks about it.

No, I completely disagree with your luck statement. BiL and SiL called us "lucky" for having good sleepers, when we actually had consistent routines and were a team. It was hard work but we battled through it together.

Of course I'm aware that there are high needs babies that need much more than that but there is also a lot of exhausted parents that understandably co sleep and don't use routines because it is easier but this doesn't help the babies to self soothe.

Sounds you were quite unlucky to have a DC that wouldn't follow the usual sleep training routines.

Agreed. I just found it interesting that both of mine did precisely what the gentle sleep training books said they would, at precisely the same time. It's almost as if the advice is based on some kind of research and testing of lots of babies 🤔

I sleep trained at 7 months to save my marriage and my sanity. I still had PND but I’m now recovered and still married.

I doubt many people are telling you you must do this - most aren’t that judgmental. By all means carry on as you are without training if you can manage it.

Be aware though that the people I know with bad sleepers who didn’t do any form of training (even gently) have terrible sleepers many years on…great if you don’t have to work or can manage it. I couldn’t.