Keeping kids in from play at lunchtime.

[0gfhty]

I wonder what people think of this. My sons school has something called "times table club" during lunch time play for one day a week. Alll children in year 4 have to go to who don't know all their times tables yet. This hasn't been communicated to the parents but it seems to be true after speaking to some other parents and children. Apparently most of the children in year 4 are in this club. I dont think the children should lose their main playtime for this and if it is most children attending then it indicates to me that their lunch time is being used to teach the curriculum. I wonder what people's views are on this? How would you complain since its more about a general practice and not just my individual child? I have found the teachers to become a little hostile and defensive in the past about anything other than praise even when being polite and approachable.

@0gfhty in your opening post you said it was for all children who don’t know their times tables. So many of us are assuming once children are up to speed on the tables they need to know they no longer have to attend, although you may find some still do as they have a competitive streak and love beating others in time tables tests

Is the whole thing about learning times tables just to benefit from knowing the answer 'off by heart' rather than just doing the calculation when it arises?

I'm curious enough to ask what you mean by this? Times tables are necessary for long multiplication. It's a method of multiplying large numbers by breaking them down into your times tables...

Children need a break and they need play and they need exercise

if the school is failing to teach them they shouldn’t make the kids suffer as a result of crap teaching or crap parenting

I'm certainly not an expert so maybe someone who is will also answer! But in my experience with DS during covid hime learning times was he had only so much in his tank, so to speak, when he came to sitting down and learning maths and because he was needing to spend time to work out basic things like 6*7 it was holding him back from actually really learning and getting a grasp on long multiplication and long division. When we stepped away from the curriculum for a bit and focused on times table we found picking up long multiplication and divisions much easier and quicker.

They call it 'club' to make it sound more appealing. In reality, these kids aren't where they need to be with times tables and need extra help.
Work on them at home OP. It doesn't come say to some (myself included - I would have been in that group!)

It’s one day a week and if helps then then whats the issue

we do ttrs daily. 5 mins for the questions as a minute a round

dd is in yr 4 so the same and as with many in the class she is good at 123456 9 10 11 and needs work on 78 and 12

I think its good the school is helping and maybe practice more with your child so they dont need this club

Its most of the year 4s that go to this "club". Theres only a handful that dont go! It sounds like no one knows that we're supposed to be doing them at home and its only from this thread that I've discovered there's a test at thr end of year 4. Like I said all I have is a QR code in the back of his planner with a link to a range of apps, nothing has been communicated by the school.His teacher this year is newly qualified and I think only qualified when she finishes this year. Not sure how teacher qualifications work. I would have been happy to do them and he is agreeable to doing maths things like this at home

@0gfhty once your child started learning their times tables (and this would be before year 4) did you never practise them with your DC? Have they never had a times table test in class before now? Year 4 statutory test should be a culmination of a few years work on times tables, not just learning the tables but understanding the maths behind them and then using them in calculations. It’s not just learning them by rote

Teacher here - kids aren’t active enough. This is counter intuitive

that many kids not knowing them I’d have one lesson a week on them.

Doesn’t your son get maths homework? Haven’t you noticed it’s sometimes multiplication?

I think parents (and maybe the teacher) would prefer the lunch club rather than before or after school club. Some kids wouldn’t be able to attend before/after school which means they would fall further behind.

My son got lots of intervention help when national tests were looming. I wish the help had started at an earlier age but school budgets..

You’ll be able to Google results in previous years but just because your son isn’t behind in his class as most need help, it doesn’t mean that this is the national landscape. How would you feel if he achieved below average nationally?

As an involved parent I’d also check out the other apps sent by the school on your own. Do you really need the school to tell you how many times a week etc?

Your comments about times tables and speed are very strange. You say that your son is interested in maths and times table confidence will mean being able to learn harder maths that uses multiplication and division as a small part of the calculation process (eg algebra or long division)

As a year 6 teacher, your child will struggle with the upper KS2 maths curriculum if he doesn’t know his times tables. The arithmetic SATs paper only gives 30 minutes to answer around 38 questions and relies heavily on times table recall. The best thing you can do is crack his tables now and then he won’t have to stay back for even more catch up sessions as SATs get nearer

All the posters moaning about parents not doing enough. How about schools!? Most parents work until late and simply don’t have the time. Some parents don’t have a clue about maths for example, I certainly don’t know my times tables other than the easy ones like 2, 5 and 10. The curriculum has changed a lot since we went to school too.

@Baconbuttymad do you not help your child with reading? Times tables are the same thing. The school teaches the child the times tables like they do reading, but as with reading the child needs to practise. If you can’t remember them then you can learn them with them. No wonder so many children struggle with maths when they have parents saying they can’t do maths, as if it is something to be proud of. You very rarely get people proudly declaring they can’t read.

I don’t think that the importance of physical activity should be underestimated.
The way they approach maths these days is very different to when I was at school so I do tend to wait until the school tell us what to practice when, but then ours are very open and proactive with their communication.
Could it be that the school don’t experience much cooperation or interest from the parents so assume there is no point telling them? Were they expecting the children to explain what the app was for? Or is it that this particular teacher doesn’t have good communication skills?

@sittingonabeach
yes I read with my kids but I also work until 7 most evenings as does my other half so we’re not around all day. It’s the school and teachers job to teach the kids! We need to provide for them and keep a roof under their heads!!!!
also, a lot of kids work better with someone who is not their parent.

Also not everyone is good at maths. Some people hate it and actually struggle with it but might be better at humanities!

Seems like the school has been very poor at communication in general. You should have been informed of the Y4 curriculum and any upcoming assessments. I'd have a word with someone on the SLT and maybe not this newly qualified teacher, she's probably under enough pressure.
If your boy likes maths then he'll probably love TTR. It's hard to get my DGS off it as he's always trying to beat his previous score.

@Baconbuttymad so do you both work like that 7 days a week? Do you never do school/after school club run with DC, that's a good time to do some times table practice. If neither of you get home before 7 who helps your DC with their homework?

@sittingonabeach Only Mon-Fri but weekends we do clubs and family stuff.
my in laws look after the kids but they’re old so can’t expect them
to understand or do all of their hwk

Except, as the OP has clearly demonstrated (and reinforced with her opinion that it's apparently unnecessary), many parents do not do this.

It doesn’t sound as if the school is very good at communicating but you (and his dad) have to take some responsibility for him needing to go to this club too. If there’s a qr code at the back of his book, you don’t need to be told to access the links - that’s obvious he should have been engaging with them! And if it wasn’t obvious to you, you should have asked his teacher.
With regards to missing lunch play, I don’t agree with that. I wonder how long this club lasts for though. It might just be 15 minutes before afternoon register. I still don’t agree with missing playtime though because children have to be super focussed all morning and they need some down time.

I work in a year 4 class some of the week. Since the beginning of term, the teacher has reminded the children every day about TTRS. She has given house points and offered other incentives. She had parents evening the week before half term and had the same conversation with every parent about times tables. Unfortunately it’s still the same children doing it, which is less than a third of the class. Parents just don’t seem to understand they also play a part in their children’s education.

Oh and learning the times tables are incredibly important.
Im in my fifties but my second year junior school teacher (so year 4 these days), was a strict, formidable woman and I can still remember her ramming the times tables down our throats. At the time, it made me super anxious but all these years later, I’m thankful that I learnt them at that age.