Keeping kids in from play at lunchtime.

[0gfhty]

I wonder what people think of this. My sons school has something called "times table club" during lunch time play for one day a week. Alll children in year 4 have to go to who don't know all their times tables yet. This hasn't been communicated to the parents but it seems to be true after speaking to some other parents and children. Apparently most of the children in year 4 are in this club. I dont think the children should lose their main playtime for this and if it is most children attending then it indicates to me that their lunch time is being used to teach the curriculum. I wonder what people's views are on this? How would you complain since its more about a general practice and not just my individual child? I have found the teachers to become a little hostile and defensive in the past about anything other than praise even when being polite and approachable.

You’re right, they shouldn’t be spending their lunch breaks learning; parents should have stepped in long ago.

At my sons school we were invited to a parents assembly at the end of year 3 I believe it was about teaching maths at home. I’m 29 but many of the methods even I was taught have changed and I found it really helpful. It was in this that they went into the times table check in year 4. My son was using timetables rockstars regularly and got 100% on his check. I can’t understand for that reason why your child’s school didn’t do something similar because then it might have cut the need for children to lose their playtime along with teachers using their lunch time, even if only SOME parents did the work with kids at home because now you’ve found out you weren’t aware of what they needed to focus on so just seems to be something that could have been avoided

It’s definitely time to feedback to the school because even if they have told the parents, it hasn’t been in a way that works (which perhaps reflects the number of them losing their break time now).

That's understandable to want to avoid that. But it could be explained to him as a positive thing for him?

If your DC don’t know their times tables by Year 4, they are in need of extra support. I’d applaud the school for this. I’m a teacher for reference.

I don’t see why it’s the sole responsibility of the school to tell parents about the year four times tables tests, it’s been in the news. And really, parents should be teaching or at the very least, supporting the teaching of times tables anyway. Tests or not.

It could be tried but I really doubt he'd see it as a positive thing, especially with his friends asking why he can't play outside etc.

As I've said, I'm glad his school haven't handled it in that way.

Fair enough.

They won't be learning for 6 hours straight. They are still getting their morning break and their lunchtime when they eat, just not their lunch playtime.

And hopefully they have scheduled this on a day the children have a physical activity like PE or forest school or swimming, so they are still getting a movement break.

Of course it’s school’s responsibility to let parents know of upcoming tests and how they want the children to practice - apparently in this case with TTR. Education is far more school’s responsibility than it is their job to get involved with parking, interfere with parental choices about online access, advertise local charity events and complain about the contents of lunchboxes, but school seems to manage to send all those emails!

I follow the news quite closely and haven't been aware. Is there a reason why this has been in the news lately? I knew the children do tests in year 6 and the year 2 test was scrapped by the time he was in year 2. He generally achieves very well in school especially in maths and I had no idea he needed to know his times tables. I tended to avoid this like this when I work with him at home as times tables seem quite old fashioned

We used to do the times table on the school run. Otherwise at bath time, bed time. Wrote them up on a sheet stuck on a wall in the kitchen.

Did the same with spelling.

I am opposed to the removing of playtime for any reason really. Those children with the most challenging behaviour or need to catch up academically need to have big movement and play the most.

My child is practising at home his times tables, but for those who can’t or won’t I would like this to happen in school without the removal of playtime. I feel so strongly that it’s vitally important - more so actually than times tables (although it’s not an either /or and doesn’t have to be). Evidence also shows children learn more after exercise.

Do they not send times tables home for them to learn? That was a staple weekly homework when I was that age. We had a spelling and times tables test every single week.

It’s good the teachers give up their break I suppose. I don’t understand the obsession with learning them though, I don’t know move off by heart and have 2 degrees! Wasn’t a “thing” when I was at school. Ditto the phonics “thing”

My family did too. I can do them all by rote except my nines because my mam taught me to do them on my fingers (so easy)! She always made it into a game for us in the days before apps. Both of my parents can recite theirs too and they are late 70s and one almost 80.

Times tables have been a "thing" since before compulsory education was mandated.

Phonics has been a "thing" since the Victorian times. There was a blip in the 60s/70s/80s with the whole word approach, but back to phonics by the 90s.

So what would your child and any other child who does know their tables, be doing while the ones that don't are having this catch up session with the teacher? What lesson will your child forfeit so those children whose parents can't be bothered, get this extra session?

Well done to the school for introducing this. If you don't want him to miss his lunchtime playtime then help him learn his times tables at home. It's not rocket science.

Fast, automatic recall of multiplication facts is a fundamental skill needed for any maths past year 3. In primary alone he will need them for fractions, area and perimeter, ratio and proportion, column multiplication, algebra, factors, prime numbers….the list is endless. Not knowing times tables can cause real cognitive overload when they are trying to master any of the maths skills listed above.

You think knowing multiplication tables is "old fashioned"?

🙄

You can reinforce times tables at home - and you should.

Eating isn’t play - it’s a basic need. Expecting young children to manage on two 15-minute breaks plus enough time to eat simply isn’t enough, and it’s unrealistic to think otherwise. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve seen break time removed as a consequence for young children, or 4 and 5 year olds told that “good listening” means sitting still with their legs crossed for 30 minutes. We then expect children to stay regulated when, in reality, what their bodies need in order to regulate is movement. It’s bonkers. Movement and play at break times and lunchtime should never be negotiable.

The issue isn’t with teachers - I have a great deal of respect for them - it’s the system and all the pointless testing. I also don't know all of my timetables off by heart and when I was about 8 I was moved down several year groups to my little sisters class (mortifying) to do Maths, probably partly because I couldn't recite them! I couldn't grasp how to tell the time - I remember being told this was why and how wonderful my sister was at Maths in comparison. I got A's at A level, a first class BSc and have almost finished my Masters in a field closely related to child development - the evidence points to the need for sufficient physical activity and meaningful play to support learning not cramming an extra lesson in at lunch.

At our school those that need it do additional maths before school - they come in at 8.10 rather than 8.50 2 or 3 days per week. Which is a bit of a challenge when have 2 children in same school starting at different times, but I'm extremely grateful as these small group sessions really helped my daughter.

OP, when do you think the teacher should be doing these sessions if not at lunch? Doing them during standard class time isn't fair on those who do know their timetables already.

Even If he is good at maths, not knowing time tables will slow him down and set him back. I'm surprised it hasn't come up already - our school was quite clear they don't have time for times tables on the curriculum and asked parents to work on them at home. It's great they are supporting kids at lunchtime that still don't know them though.