To think ds has adhd

[tickclocktock]

I’ve tried to convince myself he hasn’t but I kind of think he must …

He’s 5. Been at school today. After dinner I put the TV on.

Ds just … won’t sit down. He endlessly circles the room, relocating toys from one part of the house to another, standing right in front of the tv, scraping his chair across the floor, climbing on the back of the sofa. Just will not sit down.

Obviously I tell him not to but he ignores me. Or does it then moves back.

I am stressed out with constantly nagging him; our relationship is poor as a result.

I don’t know what next steps are.

This. My Ds is now 11 and I still cannot get an nhs diagnosis for ADHD as its possibly autism and that takes ages to diagnose.

Maybe he does have ADHD, maybe he doesn’t, we are all individuals and unique, sticking a label on him won’t make any difference to that. Just accept him for who he is and cut him a bit of slack incase he can’t help it.

When I had DS1 who was also like this as a younger child but is less hyperactive in general, it didn't matter he didn't have a sibling. In fact I found it completely relentless as he would demand entertaining and attention all of the time.

When I had DS2 I didn't want to repeat that experience and DS3 came three years later. It did work to an extent; when DS3 is also around, DS2 is split in who he seeks attention from and so there is less intensity for me. But it was difficult when they were younger because he didn't know how to read DS3's body language in order to predict what he would do and would constantly jump to the worst conclusion (he's going to ruin my train track!) or just escalate instantly to the slightest thing or get frustrated that DS3 didn't follow his (often poorly worded) instructions perfectly. I often sat with them and pointed out what I could see about what DS3 was doing to try and help DS2 see it.

The thing that helped me avoid the escalating arguments/annoyance was learning about the nervous system and how a child's nervous system can get elevated and then our presence with the body language showing we are annoyed/elevated ourselves comes across as a threat to them so they will increase too - ADHD Dude has a thing about this called the Argument Vortex, although he frames it as them seeking dopamine which can be a useful framing as well.

I think I got my understanding of this from listening to podcasts with Mona Delahooke, then the absolutely brilliant Becky Bailey from Conscious Discipline, who is really specific about how to do the body language in a way that somehow sticks with me in the moments I need it, and then the book Big Baffling Behaviours by Robyn Gobbel (I couldn't get on with her podcast, but the book is helpful).

The other thing that helps is to have a very calm, boring generic and minor consequence on hand to be a replacement for when you feel enraged and want to shout or threaten. Although I generally lean more towards gentle parenting (and you need to be much more proactive/bottom up skill building/positive/understanding with ADHD) it's hard to change behaviour patterns and that goes for parents too, so having something to replace the exasperated moments with helps.

I don't do toy rotations because I would also forget. I was diagnosed with ADHD before either child but I started medication between them (they are ten years apart) and the difference is huge. With toys what I have done which helps massively is sort through everything and put it into different Ikea cubes or trofast drawers. Anything that needs all the parts to work properly is treated like a board game and kept together and out of reach so they have to ask to get it out. In each "category" of toys I go through periodically and get rid of any dud bits like cars that don't drive properly any more or 90% of the trees from the train set, or the fences from the farm animal drawer that don't stand up or click together. Just stuff that is broken, outgrown or they always pass over for something else.

This helps so they don't go burrowing through every box trying to find the right bit for something, what they see is enticing and interesting and they generally only have 1-2 boxes out at a time. We used to regularly have the contents of most of the boxes on the floor at once and could never find anything and toys didn't hold their attention for long.

In general our house is much more organised and manageable than it was when DS1 was little - I follow Dana K White / A Slob Comes Clean and her "container concept" has been really helpful. If you also have ADHD, it is easy for everything to become overwhelming because often the results of executive dysfunction (poor short term memory, disorganisation, difficulty prioritising, time blindness etc) lead to conditions (mess, stress, lost things, backlogs, low self-esteem, poor health, financial/relationship strain etc) which tend to make everything else harder and that can be part of why it feels like people offer suggestions and they just don't work for you, or like you're constantly chasing your tail and get nowhere. My only tip for getting out of this is to pick 1-2 things and focus on improving those and meanwhile drop the guilt on being in survival mode on everything else. As you make measurable progress on the 1-2 focus areas, those improvements end up getting added to the "basic survival mode" because they are easier to maintain and at that point you can switch focus to improve a different thing.

You can't hurt anything by learning as much as you can about ADHD. Russell Barkley is brilliant although some people find him depressing. If you're feeling anxious about your child having ADHD, it might not be the best place to start. ADHD Dude or How To ADHD are more upbeat.

This is all good advice.

I didn’t realised DD is only 2, I wouldn’t give her an iPad either. I would just massively limit TV at home and only have it on when you need to. Easier said than done but honestly you’ll reap the rewards. Or as others have said, but something interactive on like action songs, so they can both be up and moving around and don’t need to be looking at the TV so it doesn’t matter if he blocks her a bit.

I get it.

This might sound like a weird question, but how intelligent is he?

ADHD often (not always) comes with a higher than average level of intelligence - I think because ADHDers tend to have faster mental processing they can learn at a faster rate.

With DD (bearing in mind this was years before ADHD became a consideration), she was smart but was also way ahead of her peers in terms of emotional maturity.

This caused issues because she got frustrated with the behaviour of her peers, but also her intelligence meant that her practical knowledge and understanding outstripped her emotional understanding.

When she was about your sons age, we would ask her, in an age appropriate way, why she reacted the way she did, or what was going on in her head. She didn't always know, but when she could articulate it, it helped us to find strategies.

Couple of examples....

She would be happily playing with her sister and then all of a sudden have a huge tantrum, directed at DD1.

Initially we would tell her off make sure there were consequences etc. But when we were able to talk to her about it, she said the tantrum was because she was angry. She didn't know why something innocuous made her so angry, but it did.

We then made suggestions like if she felt herself getting angry she should take herself to her room. If her sister followed it was OK to tell her to leave her alone. In her room she could get her frustrations out by punching a pillow, or shouting if she needed to.

It didnt stop the bickering and falling out completely, but it certainly reduced it. She still punches her pillow or throws squishmellows at the wall now if she is frustrated and I've lost count of how many stress balls she's burst!

We also found that with things she couldn't help (like standing in front of the TV) teasing and humour had more of an impact than being told off. A lot of ADHDers hate being teased or laughed at because it taps into our RSD so it has more imapct than getting told off which is easily ignored because it feels illogical or has no emotional impact.

The phrase "Oi, DD, If your butt was made of glass...." still get's uttered regularly in this house, and we have got used to just ignoring the movement the rest of the time.

Your DS clearly needs the movement, so look at things like a balance board and set him challenges - "Let's see if you can stay on the balance board for 1 minute" then keep upping it.

While DD is watching TV and you are cooking dinner, set him challenges to do things around the house - make a treasure hunt or tell him to find five things that start with A etc (and then keep it going by getting him to put everything back). It helps to address competitiveness and the mental hyperactivity. Making treasure hunts for her sister also kept her occupied.

Craft is another one - we have a million unfinished projects lying around, but she would hyperfocus for hours on something crafty - had to be her idea though, usually involved her wanting to make something for someone else, and she had to be able to get up and move while she was doing it.

In terms of other practical solutions - can the TV go on the wall so that it can't be stood in front of or is there another room DD could watch TV in?

You don't need a diagnosis to employ ADHD strategies or to ask school to make adjustments. It is only needed for bigger, EHCP level adjustments and medication.

I would also say don't worry about it at this stage. While your DS may have ADHD, it sounds like its likely at the mid to lower end of the spectrum, in which case, if he and you can figure out strategies to manage the negative affects, there are positive sides which make it a super power 😉

Like another poster, I also thought a couple of your responses sounded a bit ADHD like and there is a genetic component to it, so if you haven't done so already, it might be worth you doing this screening tool: Adult ADHD Self Screening Tool - ADHD UK https://share.google/eTkVuTrSIo5oFRp5X

He sounds very like my youngest DS. He’s 18 now but we knew from a very young age he had ADHD. He was 7 or 8 when he was finally diagnosed. We clicked pretty early on that “typical” parenting tricks weren’t working with him. Even though your DS hasn’t been diagnosed with ADHD I would treat him as though he has. Do some reading, find a new way of parenting. It’s hard work but just try and imagine how it is for him, being nagged at and told off for things he has little control over. Offering a hand hold because I do know how you’re feeling.

Typically it’s over 6 yes, but it’s probably important to make people aware that children can, and are, diagnosed younger if there is clear evidence that they meet the criteria. Some of these children will be prescribed medication.

It is probably worth noting though, that a 5 year old referred to the NHS is likely be considerably older by the time of assessment.

Thanks. It’s all stuff to ponder. With the toys it’s hard because he seems to gravitate to hard to reach or more put away toys (I explained that so badly sorry!) which is another reason toy rotation doesn’t work! So in his room he has some toys in a cupboard and he often drags them all out for no apparent reason or worse runs round the house with them.

i don’t know re intelligence; I don’t think he is stupid or anything but often our conversations don’t make much sense. It’s hard to talk to him about things.

@tickclocktockJust a thought from an EYFS teacher, in response to your example about standing in front of the tv - can you give him a clearer space to move to, eg a beanbag in front of the tv so he’s not blocking it for everyone else? I’m just thinking that ‘move’ might not be clear enough for him to understand.

Maybe don't put him in his room, just put him outside the living room, and the rest of the family stays in there?

My ADHD diagnosis has been a huge help in understanding my own feelings and behaviours, and this post is another example of why some of us have suggested you do the test.

I am writing this next bit from an ADHD point of view, but as with your son, take it from the view that it can be helpful even if you don't have ADHD.

Your reaction to that poster is a combination of Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria and the need to employ logic.

You know there is an issue and that usual strategies don't work with your DS. That poster has made suggestions and she is getting frustrated that you haven't acknowledged them or agreed to try them.

In reality, you are exhausted, overwhelmed and worried and not in a place right now to be totally solution focussed.

You are still coming from the logical place of traditional parenting techniques = improved behaviour, and because it hasn't worked, worries about DS having ADHD which you see it as a negative.

You do want ideas, but your brain needs time to process and come to terms with the possibility that DS has ADHD before you can figure out which ones to try first. You need to work through the ideas from a practical requirement standpoint as well as potential consequences.

Its not as easy as "Why can't you just go and buy 30 glow sticks and have a disco" because doing that involves a million other steps (going to the shop, reseraching the different types, doing the Amazon order, waiting for them to be delivered (a nightmare for ADHD impulsivity), figuring out which days it can be done, what music to use, will it get them hyped up, will they argue about the songs etc etc). You need to think the whole thing through first.

There are a lot of posts on this thread, most of which have a lot of helpful suggestions, but because you are in a place where you are not just worried about DS but also questioning whether it is a parenting failure on your part and beating yourself up over it, it has heightened your RSD reactions which is why the posters response feels rude and unhelpful. It also makes you focus more on the posts you perceive as negative and ignore the positive ones.

In contrast, posters who don't have or understand ADHD see themselves as making helpful and logical parenting suggestions and can't understand why you aren't jumping up and down with excitement at being offered new ideas to try because to them it really is as easy as just buying a pack of glow sticks.

you know your son best and you know there is nothing you can do to change how he is really - but it’s good you will find out younger if he has adhd and he’s not to young for to enquire about.

the health visitor came for my 3 year old the other day because of toilet training difficulties but she has picked up on a few other things too even subtle sensory things I hadn’t picked up on so she will come back in the new year. I thought it is 6 months away but actually 3 months away.
she even mentioned that it’s good she is aware now as even if there is no diagnosis or it comes later then if we know his struggles before school then we can have a plan in place which is most important to me is than ny son is settled and happy and comfortable.
so my point is it is not to early to look into things more. Because things take forever anyway. And he’s lucky you are noticing things now. Like I say as a girl back then so many people thought I was just weird or not acting like how I should and it has impacted me. But now I know there is nothing working with me it is just how I am i am starting to feel better.
so - I know it’s though because kind of no matter what you do your son will still have this crazy energy - my son does and winds me up sometimes! But I also got relaxed on things like piling a bunch of cushions on the floor and then him jumping on them from the sofa because I remember being a kid and I just couldn’t help the urge lol.
and even when I tried to stop it before he would just keep finding things to jump off or climbing bits I didn’t want him to climb so now it’s like ok you can climb and jump but kind of on my terms where I know it is safe if that makes sense?

I am genuinely not envisioning how this would work in most homes. He can open doors and if he just complied with instructions … well, I wouldn’t the posting!

I also don’t think you are being argumentative:)
you are just doing the best for your son

Thanks. I don’t think that’s quite why I’m posting - obviously I don’t want the worst for him, but I know that even if he is adhd and if he is diagnosed there’s nothing that can help much apart from medication maybe but that’s not something I’d want to necessarily explore. Feel low about it all tbh.

Aw don’t feel low - being understood has been one of the best things for me. It came later in my life. You are already trying to understand your son so that’s good 😌

And there is generally much more understanding and support and help these days

Sorry I’m not good at wording things but I think you’ll find your groove:)

I think it's normal for a 5 year old to want to play instead if sit in front of the TV. My eldest was always on the go at that age, he slowed down a bit around 7/8 but he was still active with football, swimming and bike rides. He is 17 now and there have been no issues with school or at home other than the typical need to pester him to keep his room tidy. Children have a lot of energy that needs to be used.

Also sometimes when I’m finding it tough it helps to talk about it with people dealing with similar - and then sometimes we can have a giggle about it. Frustrating in the moment but then we laugh about it because if we don’t laugh we cry.

Gently - it is not true that nothing apart from medication can help him. DD doesn't yet have a diagnosis so, no meds, but employing the strategies still really helps.

@BertieBotts post is totally spot on. If you are feeling overwhelmed with all of the suggestions, focus on what they have said. I've done a lot of research and reading on ADHD lately, but there are some things in that post I have not previously considered and will be looking into more.

Try to stop focusing on the negative posts.

It essentially all boils down to three things:

• An abundance of physical energy - he can't just 'not move'

• An abundance of mental energy. His brain moves so fast that he gets in front of the TV every five minutes because he forgets you've told him not to.

• A need for dopamine, which he will seek through impulsivity, tantrums and arguing.

Ignore all of the regressive suggestions like punishing him by separating him from the family, or turning off the TV if he won't sit still.

Boundaries and consequences are important for intentionally bad behaviour but you can't punish him for something he cannot help. You need to try and find strategies which address those three things.

Do you cue him in with his name so he knows you are talking to him?

Also does it matter that he doesn't sit down at home? Pick your battles.

Praise him when he does something you want him to do. (I suggest moving his chair quietly if that bothers you (or put some foam pads on its feet) ) Remind him next time that he was really good at moving his chair quietly last time and could he be really super and manage it again?

How is he with caffeine? Does he calm down or get more hyper?

More positively, there are a lot of techniques and strategies and as previously discussed you don’t need a diagnosis to implement them. Importantly, even if he were to go on to medication in future, you will still need to do all of the other stuff. It’s and not either/or.

I get the end of a tough week stuff - it’s exhausting and you need to be in a good place before you can even start to think about what to put in place, but start your research. Depending on your preference, there is plenty of reading material and videos. Start with the support organisations resources and advice and see where that takes you.

Jumping off things helps them regulate. Has he got anywhere he can jump off/on stuff? (Park, trampoline, garden, mini exercise trampoline?) If not find another way of regulating him.

(We bought autism proof furniture because we were at the point of buying furniture at that stage, sturdy, locks, no handles (still get the handles in a pot that need putting on 15 years later) safety glass)

Thanks. Yes, he does have things to jump off. None of which he shows any interest in.