To think ds has adhd

[tickclocktock]

I’ve tried to convince myself he hasn’t but I kind of think he must …

He’s 5. Been at school today. After dinner I put the TV on.

Ds just … won’t sit down. He endlessly circles the room, relocating toys from one part of the house to another, standing right in front of the tv, scraping his chair across the floor, climbing on the back of the sofa. Just will not sit down.

Obviously I tell him not to but he ignores me. Or does it then moves back.

I am stressed out with constantly nagging him; our relationship is poor as a result.

I don’t know what next steps are.

It will be interesting to see what he’s like in school. It’s very early days (he’s only in reception) I don’t feel like we’ve had a very good week in a lot of ways.

He probably doesn’t

I hope not. It’s hard because obviously it isn’t something you can test for, it isn’t a ‘he does’ or ‘he doesn’t’ test … it’s hard at the moment, feel like my head is just consumed with worries about him.

I worried a lot about DS1. He just wasn’t picking up on classroom routines and was highly impulsive. He’d screw up his work all the time. Luckily, it was suggested we assessed for ADHD, and the psychiatrist suggested meds. The change in him was immediate and profound (he was 8 by the time he got a diagnosis).

There is help available, but I think assessment is recommended around age 6.

It’s so hard, isn’t it? I think one of the problems here is that if ds does have adhd it’s sort of borderline rather than severe. Which of course is good but brings its own problems in terms of potential diagnosis and moving forward. I haven’t even raised it with DH.

Hi. Just want to chip in my perspective- I have adhd, diagnosed late (I’m nearly 50). Suspect I also have autism. I was a very high achiever in later school -primary was a no go as most of it was boring-the more difficult it got academically-the easier I found it. (Also because I was then doing things that interested me).

Honestly, like anything ADHD has it strengths and weaknesses like anything. For a lot of human evolution it was a massive strength to society. The best advice is, if he is adhd then learn to work with it. The reason ADHD is so stressful is society is not set up for it. Think of it as learning coping mechanisms for the outside world and where you can control the environment (eg home) create an adhd friendly environment)

One issue that’s common with ADHD is processing of verbal instructions-he might not even understand he can’t bounce on the furniture. He’s prob got too much choice with toys. This causes overwhelm and will block decision making. choice can be stressful. I’m currently exploring the thought I became vegetarian then vegan in part at least because I found it easier if food choices were limited. I hate it when someone brings out a vegan menu. It’s impossible to decide. It’s a curiosity thing.
Put some toys away.,

Use picture instructions eg use AI to create a picture of him jumping with a big cross over it and pin it to furniture he cant jump on - buy him a trampoline so he has some wher to jump

Hes blocking the TV to get interaction (he might be wondering what’s wrong with his sibling sat on the sofa watching TV- he’ll be thinking that’s very strange behaviour to I just sit) rather than shout at him, gently guide him away. The noise of the tv at the sane time as you telling him something might be overwhelming so his verbal processing will go down further.

What does he like to do? Engage with him in that..

if he does have adhd you’ll need to accept che views ffs world differently.As a parent you’ll need to help him navigate the weird world where everyone has the lives dictated by the numbers on a display/where two pieces of metal are pointing on a circle (for people with adhd it’s common for time as we commonly understand it not to exists - which is technically correct we usually just look at things as a series of events).

ADHD isn’t a weakness- not dread it. It’s a difference. If he does have it, learn everything you can and be prepared to have your mind blown by viewing the world from a different angle.

@tickclocktock

My best advice is to work with school and tell them you’re aware that some behaviours might point towards an ADHD profile, and that you’re keeping an eye on things.

I work (secondary) with children whose parents have been watchful waiting for years, and it’s fallen apart to an extent with hormones and pressure in the mix. I consider DS1 quite lucky that we started the ball rolling early.

That doesn’t sound like ds at all to be honest.

Yesterday was tough and while I do accept he was a bit pent up please remember we had an amber weather warning, lashing, heavy rain, entire village in danger of being swallowed by the river - it really wasn’t a ‘let’s all go on the trampoline’ sort of evening 😂

But he just keeps circling the room and gravitates in front of the tv. It doesn’t matter how many times I ask him to move; he does and then just stands in front of the tv again. Ask him to move again, does another lap or the room and then in front of the tv.

If you get annoyed with him generally he just gets angry back. If you turn the tv off as well as annoying his sister he just starts screaming and sobbing.

he is easier alone. I often think maybe it’s having two children … friends with just one seem to have a calmer sort of home environment

He also seems to be quite immature in some ways, toddler like, like he still scribbles on walls with pens even though he knows he shouldn’t.

Sorry @ProfessorRizz cross post. Should have tagged the poster. Will read your post now …Edit - so at the moment I’m not planning to involve the school. I haven’t even spoken to DH yet and it’s unlikely he’ll be on board so it really does have to be a waiting game.

So you've tried 2 things which are strategies not complete solutions (1 of which you didnt do aks know you are all of options?

You need to stop comparing your children its not helpful.

Here is a non exhaustive list off the top of my.head.

• small "races" on way home from school
• park after school regularly (yes... today is a storm but i dont get the vibe you are there 4 x per week in any weather)

-structured freeplsy instead of just banging the tv on.

• bedtime disco. Around 6pm we do a "disco" so kids can go wild.
• play floor is lava
• build an assault course.
• get a trampoline / balance board (direct him to use them "how high can you jump?"
• kids yoga is good

I'd also stop being so controlling and insisting they "do as they are told" about benign things.

My dd packed half her bedroom into a trunki so she could go on holiday in the playroom (so what?). She had about an hour of independent imagonative play. At one point I joined her "on the beach" for a picnic and her dad went looking for cheese on the moon. at the end it took 5 / 10 mins to put back while talking about her day / getting pjs on. I didnt go on at her nagging and issuing consequences for her "nit listening" and refusing to leace everything where it was.

I hate to say it but you sound like you are set on how children "should" be and also that you prefer your other child... 🫣

@SalmonOnFinnCrisp i think you’re possibly being a bit obtuse there which I’m not honestly in the mood for. Sorry.

And i think you sound keen to statement and medicate your 5 yr old so he is nice and compliant. And dont want to reflect on or engage with changing your own behaviour 🤷🏻‍♀️
Not sorry.

Do you? If that’s how it’s come over I apologise … it’s the opposite really. I desperately don’t want him to have ADHD. I do think it’s more likely to be a parenting issue but it’s hard because I find the advice doesn’t work, or is just totally impractical for me to follow. When people are struggling anyway, and you try to describe one evening (with pretty extreme weather!) and you get ‘well you’ve ONLY done this so of COURSE …’

If (and it’s a huge, massive if) ds has adhd nothing is likely to happen for years. I’m not going to approach the school. I just feel like I’m running out of ideas and in the meantime our relationship is deteriorating.

My DD was like this - we used to call her the Duracell Bunny. She never stopped, even when I was pregnant with her.

She dropped her (irregular) daytime naps before she was one and would just keep going. As soon as she sat down for more than two minutes she'd zonk out.

I remember being at a family party and tidying up at the end when she was about 18 months old. Her sister and older cousins (oldest was about 7) were all asleep or starting to fall asleep, she was still running round!

She's 14 now and will still sometimes have times where she can't sit still, but as she's got older and life has got busier, the constant physical movement has calmed down.

The constant mental movement however is getting worse.

We are looking at an ADHD referral but that has been driven by other behaviours following my late diagnosis.

The constant moving and fidgeting is one piece of the puzzle, but if it was the only thing, I wouldn't consider ADHD.

As frustrating as it is when you are exhausted and you just want to chill out, I would say don't worry about it for now unless there are other things causing issues.

Just keep an eye on things as he gets older for other potential ADHD behaviours - at school and home (DD doesn't show any at school as she masks so well, but that then leads to issues at home) and take it from there.

Try and find an activity to direct the energy, even if its just tidying up at home, but one thing I would recommend is make sure you're getting him using the mental energy, not just the physical. We realised quite quickly that if we didn't do that it would lead to tantrums and behaviour issues.

Dance is good because its constant movement but you also have the mental exercise of having to remember routines and he can use that energy to practice at home, or use the energy to get him tidying up etc.

Why aren't kids allowed to move around while watching TV. A lot of kids programmes actively encourage movement.

Its only an issue if its getting in other people's way, in which case you tell them to move, not force them to sit 🙄

Thank you. I’ve tried to find activities. He’s really good at riding his bike and archery (bit of a niche one but he was quite taken with a Robin Hood talk a few months ago and then a local club were doing sessions so …!) but one thing is he’ll get physically tired but won’t recognise it. So once we were bike riding, he had been round a trail countless times, he was exhausted and couldn’t get up the hills and was literally stuck on one hill screaming at me when I tried to help him but refusing to just sit and have a rest and a drink.

It can be frustrating and this is where I question my parenting as it’s hard to know what the right thing to do is. Getting annoyed makes him angry too. Being patient and calm just doesn’t work, it’s like nothings happened even when you stay calm but have that ‘firm’ sort of demeanour ‘ok ds - you are coming off now!’ Just shouts NO I’M NOT at me

I have had a really, really tough week with him and have all these worries in my mind. It helps to share them even if my posts seem rambly.

Getting in peoples way is precisely the problem. He stands in front of the TV and of course I ask him to move but then he goes back. So a half hour show (they were watching The Gruffalo) goes like this

DS stands in front of the TV - ‘DS please move, DD can’t see’
DS laps the room and stands in front of the TV
’ds, move please, DD can’t see’
DS laps the room and stands in front of the TV
’DS you’re doing it again!’
DS laps the room and stands in front of the TV
’DS you’re in front of the TV’
DS laps the room and stands in front of the TV
’DS move please!’
DS laps the room and stands in front of the TV
’ds, will you MOVE’

Bear in mind our lounge is really small - that must be a hundred times in a TV show. And this is what I mean about it negatively impacting our relationship. And yes OK I could turn it off but then I have two children crying and arguing so that’s not exactly a solution either. That’s why ideally he’d sit down as it stops him gravitating to standing in front of the TV although he does go back eventually but it increases the time between standing in front of the TV.

Yep it is how it comes across and i agree with you here
I do think it’s more likely to be a parenting issue

I can hear how hard you are finding this but your posts read as helpless and like you have no volition when you do.

Your issue i think is if you keep doing what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got.
And you sound really resistant to trying and anything new.

Why is it impossible to turn the tv off throw some sofa cushions on the floor and play floor is lava?
Why cant you get a tube of neon glows sticks (which are about 30 for £1) and do a 15min bedtime disco?
Why are you so resistant to even trying?

Any behavioural change you do see is going to show up in tiny increments there is no magic solve.

i might be wildly off the mark I think part of your issue is you are (validly) exhausted and find it hard now and dont want to make it "harder" for yourself for "nothing".

Maybe find something like chatgpt could be helpful as you can give it a list of all the things you dont want to try because you believe it impractical and it can suggest somethings MN havent thought of.

i hope you can work through your blockers and find some strategies and tactics that work and that it gets better for your son.

@SalmonOnFinnCrisp I have posted at the end of a tough week and I am exploring my own thoughts, worries and anxieties.

I don’t think we are likely to find one another supportive or helpful here. If I have come across as argumentative or difficult I apologise for that, it is not my intention, however I do feel I am within my rights to further explain or clarify or correct. I’ve tried to do so respectfully.

In turn your comments, intended or otherwise, are blunt to the point of rudeness and abrasive in tone and as such I don’t really want to engage further, to be honest.

It’s difficult but you have to parent you two different children differently, you can’t treat them the same because they aren’t the same. Fairness is not treating people the same, it’s addressing their needs equally.

Older DSS cannot handle screens. Struggles not to look at a screen if he’s in the same room as one, even showing something he couldn’t care less about. He would hang upside down on the sofa. So we do family movie night on a Friday, and he’s allowed to watch a film or some TV on his own. But he’s not allowed to sit down and watch a bit of TV after school with DD because he just can’t handle it. And we’ve been clear if she goes the same way we will be the same with her (also how at 4 showing signs of ADHD). No video games at all.

Also, of course he’s going to get angry when repeatedly told off, he will shout because it either gives him a dopamine hit or gets you to back off, so a reward either way. Being calm and enforcing a consequence is key. I would tell my child if they can’t stay away from the TV they can’t watch it and will have to do something else, and I will physically move them (calm and controlled) if they don’t listen, the way you would with a 2 year old.

We generally avoid iPads apart from flights and homework but you could give DD an iPad and headphones to watch the Gruffalo given DS clearly isn’t interested in it enough to sit and watch it. If he’s interested and has used enough energy he would sit still. You can discuss what his behaviour is showing you and what your response is as the parent.

It’s fine to give chances but there are limits. My kids know we are at mine when I say ‘I will not be saying it again.’ They know a consequence is coming if they carry on.

The "stop doing that or I'll tell you to stop again" method is rarely effective on small kids - you need to introduce some actual consequences. What actually happens when he disobeys you (with this issue, or with anything else)? You didn't mention anything. Of course he doesn't listen - why would he? You're just irrelevant background noise.

Explain what is and isn't allowed in the house (so anything that could damage furniture is a no), and then if the things that aren't allowed happen, the consequences does - every time. Maybe start with ten minutes in the garden to run around there?

He sounds like a normal five-year-old.

Try to make sure he doesn't eat much processed food or sugar

I really don’t want DD getting into iPads and I don’t think she’d wear headphones (she is only two.) Besides, DS would then want an iPad and so I’d either have them both fighting over it or two children plugged into separate devices which I think we all agree is not ideal. I know I’m getting a bit of a hard time here and I flagellate myself enough but I honestly don’t think it’s vastly unusual to watch a bit of TV in the evening!

Finding a consequence he cares about is hard. I haven’t managed it yet. The other difficulty is that I don’t feel he’s intentionally standing in front of the TV to be annoying. It really is like he can’t help himself.

@Elsvieta as above really. I will admit I just don’t know what to do.

I hope so @LilySad91 … I really do!

Perhaps put him out of the room until the tv show has finished? Or do it in increments of 5/10 min? Like, he goes out, you watch for 5 min (ignoring any noise), then tell him he can come back in IF he doesn't block the screen. If he agrees, let him back in, but if it happens again, straight back out. (Won't work the first time, obviously. Maybe the tenth. Maybe the hundredth).

It’s implementing that practically @Elsvieta . When I’ve tried to put him in his room before he goes absolutely mental. So the only way to keep him there is to sit on the other side with your back against the door. It takes forever to calm him down and meanwhile my two year olds on her own downstairs. I guess this is what I mean about advice needing to be practical, sometimes I just can’t (not sure it works anyway but have to try something.)