DP nephew and our new baby

[Girlmummyxox]

Hello

Opinions have been mixed about this so pleade be kind if im being unreasonable. I dont have much experince with autism and its my first baby. So DP nephew is 19 and severely autistic. I say severely as he relies on parents for everything, cannot look after himself and has the mind of a child. I mean no offence by any of this.

He has a bigger brother (not autisitc) and three younger cousins. My little girl is the youngest in the family by quite a bit (dp started family later in life).

Let me say first that nephew is a lovely boy. I genuinely love listening to his movie facts and hearing how passionate he is about games.

Anyway, since our little girl was born (5 months now), he has been.. i cant think of any other word, obsessed with her. Whenever we visit or meet up he has to be the person holding her. When he holds her, he rubs his face all over her and strokes her body. Ive taken her off him before because I find it all a bit creepy. A word me and DP have bickered about. His family encourage him holding her all the time and take lots of pictures of this. DP thinks its because he is unlikely to have a family of his own and they like seeing how happy and gentle he is with a baby. Whenever he gets too close I have started telling him to give her space and sometimes ive taken her back. He has started telling his mum that im giving him into trouble. He sits and just stares at her while being inches from her face. And sometimes kisses her all over, me and dp tell.him to stop. He also always tries taking her from my arms to "show her something" in another room which is usually a laser light or disco ball (she loves colours and movement) but i refuse to let him take her and go with him, while holding her. Why should I? He is a vulnerable adult. As if im letting him take her in another room, alone.
He has now started saying "does she love me??" If we say yes, he gets happy and tries rubbing faces and whispering "i love you too, pretty girl". I dont know, I feel awful as I type all of this but its weird in my opinion.

My issue? Well its crossing boundaries, also I dont want to enable behaviour and id like to set boundaries and expectations now. If my daughter came to me in a few years time telling me another adult was doing this, id be furious. Dp said he understands why I think what I think but his nephew lives in another world and means no harm. He said he doesn't feel the need to speak to his sister as it'll cause offence and what would he even say. Id like him to tell her that she needs to speak to her son about boundaries because it isn't okay.

She has gotten to the age now where she doesn't like being held all the time but this makes him annoyed as she "isn't close to him" he tries to force it until I tell him no. He doesn't like cries and will put his fingers in his ears and shouts "lalalalala" until he is ushered out of the room. They have offered to look after our daughter on so many occasions to let me and my partner go out but its just isnt going to happen.

Partner thinks im unreasonable. Am I?

Thans

You weren't being protected and he was being enabled. So many of these stories. It's not right.

You are definitely not being unreasonable. I fully understand your concerns. You are protecting your DD. My autistic cousin was recently charged with sexual assault. The signs and behaviour where there from early teens but family members brushed it of and his behaviour was excused because of his autism.

Stick to your guns and tell the other family members to f of.

The key point is that if he lacks capacity then the responsibility still remains - but it lies with the careers - and they need to understand that this can't be ignored or shoved under the carpet or brushed off as being unkind to his feelings.

His feelings matter but again it's up to the carers to explain why how other people feel matters too.

It's not for other people to put up with.

Exactly. It sounds as if his carers are indulging him on this issue, photographing him and encouraging his interest in the baby - is that how you see it, @Girlmummyxox ?

No she’s calling the behaviour creepy not her nephew.

I worked with adults with learning disabilities for 8 years. Boundaries are a big thing, they have to be established and stuck to. The parents of these adults think they're children. But they're adults with the same feelings as us, e.g. sexual. We had lots of incidences involving inappropriate sexual behaviour. Some times we had to call the police.You are right to set Boundaries and must never let him walk off with your child to another room. He doesn't have the mental capacity to understand right and wrong. He just does what feels nice to him. Your child's safety comes first, you should not care if feelings are hurt. Your husband is very naive.

I was trying to articulate that earlier, and failed miserably.
So, thank you for cutting right to the heart of it.

Yes, I agree 👍. Particularly the Safeguarding v Virtue Signalling part.

Yanbu at all op, his behaviour is very concerning and yes, creepy.

IIWM tbh at this point id be avoiding going there where possible until your DD is older and certainly would continue with not allowing him to take her into another room on their own. Absolutely zero chance of them babysitting too.

Ive seen an autistic family member have a complete meltdown over triggering noises and there is just no way id risk myself getting caught up let alone a baby, and they're not as developmentally affected in the way your DN seems to be.

Sorry op it does sound really tough but im with you on this and your DP must be finding it difficult but he really should be taking your feelings into account here.

It's perfectly appropriate.

I’d hate that . In fact I’d make excuses not to visit

I'm wondering if the people thinking it's nice and he just thinks she's a doll would say the same if it was a young boy being kissed all over and taken to another room?

I am sorry that happened to you. 💐

Would you let anyone else do the same to your baby? Would you let any other 19 year old man rub his face all over her body? The answer is no! Autism or not this is not acceptable! Your daughter needs you to advocate for her whether nephew is autistic or not! I would stop taking her round

Just because the nephew is autistic doesn't mean he cannot be taught boundaries. Your baby doesn't nor shouldn't have to tolerate this 19year old man-related or not- to constantly touch her just to keep him happy. He's a grown man. He should have been taught boundaries long ago. It sounds like everyone's allowed him to overstep boundaries to pacify him and it's clearly doing the lad no favours. Your baby isn't his toy to play with and do as he pleases. His autism isn't a free pass to do what he likes

It’s fine not to let him smother her, but YABVU for sexualising his behaviour by calling him ‘creepy’.

I imagine this is a really hard situation and it sounds like you have been patient, but I think it’s your right to set boundaries around your daughter. If it makes you feel uncomfortable that’s completely valid. I wouldn’t like this either.

Well done for sticking up for your daughter and enforcing boundaries to protect her. You are not being unreasonable!

I’m sorry but I would be the same. It does feel creepy and very overbearing. Your daughter won’t appreciate it and would any of the adults like that kind of attention or would they be telling him not to do that so much?!
If everyone just lets him get way too close all the time, he will all the time and that’s not helping him either.
Your instincts are there for a reason. I’m totally understanding about autism, but you can’t just let him do all that and expect your daughter to let him because adults think “it’s cute” how much he cares. I’m sorry your partners not more understanding.
The problem is girls already are brought up to be polite and not cause a fuss regarding other people’s behaviour, you need to do your daughter a favour and teach her that her personal space matters.

For what it’s worth, I just want to say I agree with everything you’ve said about this boy and what you’re going to do in the future.

Your baby is the absolute priority here and it is up to his parents to manage his behaviour around her. if they can’t or won’t, then you have your plan in place.

i applaud you for taking the stance that you have, not many would out of fear of offending. But I’m so glad you can see through that and are putting your daughter first.

Your DP and ILs are the problem here. They cant be saying that he cant help what hes doing because of his mental age/capacity one moment, then be fine with him taking your baby off alone in another room the next! He's either not mentally capable or he is and of course he isnt and the responsible adults around him should be making sure that there are boundaries in place not appeasing his behavior just to keep him happy and to make him feel loved.

You are absolutely okay to feel how you do and to advocate for your little girl and still care about your nephew. You are doing right by both of them for insisting there be some boundaries in place.

It's not OK for a 19 year old man to behave like that, regardless of whether or not they have disabilities, and it is up to the adults around him, his carers, to teach him that that isn't OK. The adults around him are failing him & setting him up to invite trouble if he isn't taught that he can't go around touching children just because he likes them. He is still a 19 year old man, with hormones, and it would be doing him a terrible injustice if he wasn't also treated like a 19 year old man with hormones. His body will behave as per his age even if his disabilities mean that he doesn't understand those feelings. Maybe it is all completely innocent. Hopefully it is. But if something happened as a result of poor supervision and teaching, how would that Pandora's Box ever be closed for either of them? Your in-laws are all being terribly neglectful, and if Nephew were to think he could transfer that behaviour to another baby or child outside of the home, it could well result in far bigger problems.
PLEASE can parents start teaching boys (and girls, but the main problem seems to be boys) that they are NOT entitled to girls' bodies. Ever. It doesn't matter whether they are neurotypical or neurodiverse, IT IS NOT OK. If they can't understand this, then they need to be supervised at all times. No ifs, no buts.

That's his parents' job. It is up to them to teach their child how to function in the world, not her. And the problem is that HIS parents can't be arsed to teach him right from wrong or at the very least tell him no and remove him from the situation if he continues to behave in this way. His behaviour is indeed "creepy". He as a person isn't creepy, he is just being failed by those who should be caring for him appropriately.
OP's job is to keep her daughter safe. It isn't to educate her nephew, and all the other supposedly responsible adults, how to behave & interact appropriately with a baby who is too little to advocate for herself.

It's good to set the boundaries now whilst she's a baby, because as she grows up she likely won't want this level of interaction and there is absolutely no way a little girl should be told to put up with it. He isn't being creepy in the sense of it being sexual, I don't think you should worry about that (or use those words when discussing the behaviour with SiL/BiL) but if you/dp/your little girl aren't comfortable with that level of attention then that's totally your call and they should back you up.
I wonder if there's a way you could work with SiL to transition his attention into something else (possibly a doll) that he can baby but it isn't a living thing. Tbh I think BiL/SiL have let him down here, by not discussing with him in advance some basic and easy to understand rules (e.g. ask a parent before you touch or hold a baby, it isn't OK to carry a baby around, babies cry but it's OK to go to your room if you don't like the noise, if a baby isn't happy get it's parents, parents always know best so follow their rules). My little boy has mild sen but we regularly discuss new social dynamics and appropriateness, so he's prepared as he might not naturally pick up on things in the moment (e.g. recently we had - now your female friend is older she might not like playing wrestling games, ask her first and only do it if it's ok). They should have done this for him and also possibly (if they thought he'd buy into it) bought a doll or toy he can treat as his baby instead of using yours. It all comes from a loving place but disability is a reason for behaviours arising, not an excuse for behaviours to continue if they're not ok.

I wouldn't like any child holding my baby, it is a delicate situation. Good luck.