To not understand people who talk about being the first in their family to go to uni like it’s a badge of honour?

[Kyrgyzstan]

Sorry if this sounds dismissive of their achievements but isn’t it less of a rags to riches tale of personal achievement and more of a generational difference? I mean barely any of our parents generation went to university and now it’s pretty much expected if you want a half way decent job.

Obviously if you were raised by heroin addicts and managed to still get good grades and go off to uni that’s different but the children of ordinary parents who just didn’t go to university talking about it like a huge achievement sounds a little strange to me?

Tbh, I have never heard of anyone saying that about themselves, but lots of proud family members will point it out on their behalf, because they know what an achievement it is in their particular family.

Publishing a novel isn’t necessarily going to rise you from poverty given that the average yearly wage of a writer is around £7,000 a year.

Well how about you don’t criticise other people’s life choices until you actualy manage to achieve them!!

Being the ‘first to go to uni” generally means breaking generational cycles of young parenthood and low paid work / benefits. Your posts smack of jealousy and bitterness that you haven’t managed it.
I hope you do make it in the future.

I’m much older than you and was the first in my family to go. I’m now educated, have a good career and earn more than my cousins / siblings ever will.

MY children are privileged in a way that I never was. I will help them with a level choices and ucas forms and all that stuff.

I had to work it out for myself, pre-internet. That IS an achievement, despite what you think.

I wonder if the fact that you've never heard these conversations in real life is more a reflection of your own social circle than anything. You seem relatively unaware of how different your own life and upbringing may have been from that of others, and so you regard your own experiences as being very much "the norm". Which is fair enough, really - it is often the experience of going to university which brings you into contact with people from very different backgrounds to your own, and you haven't yet had that opportunity.

You had a baby at 16, and while you knew a lot of people that went to uni, you say that you also knew quite a few others who didn't go into employment, education or training at 16. For some posters, having a baby or being a neet at 16 will be totally outside their experience and something which they only ever encounter on MN.

We are all shaped by the environment in which we grow up, and by the social norms that we see around us. Nobody is saying that it's unusual or impossible for kids to go to uni from backgrounds like yours, they are merely acknowledging that it is a greater hurdle to get over than if you have grown up in a more privileged environment in which the idea that you will go to university is taken for granted from a very young age.

🙄

One of the main reasons people mention being the first in their family to go to uni is because it is and always has been a major driver of social mobility. The Sutton Trust and many other institutions are therefore very interested indeed in how many people have been to university when their parents have not, as it is an excellent measure of how mobile our society is.

See for example this report https://www.suttontrust.com/our-research/degrees-of-difference/ - and see this from the executive summary: “in the UK, one in three graduates from non-graduate families reach the top earnings quintile, compared with one in eight non-graduates from similar backgrounds - a nearly threefold uplift.” That is why it is important.

And it remains the case that graduates from graduate families are advantaged even more by a university education: “Yet graduates from advantaged families still maintain a slight edge. The same pattern is seen in the US, where 30% of disadvantaged graduates reach the top compared with 10% of their non-graduate peers, while 41% of graduates from advantaged families do so.”

So, in answer to your question:

1. It makes a material difference to your potential social mobility if you are the first in your family to go to uni.
2. Being from a family who are graduates does still confer a material advantage.

The school had to notify the local authority of the planned destinations of all year 11s in March and then again in September, along with details of all who had been offered a place so that any at risk of being NEET could be identified. Its a legal obligation to complete the returns and has been for a long time. They also report upon those who drop out with their destinations - and the LA takes over.

Linked to this is the provision of education specifically for teenage mums.

If you had applied to university or attended then you would have heard this in real life. It’s a question asked in ucas forms and universities are aware of the challenges faced by first generation students. So much so it was the focus of my recent PhD. The issues haven’t gone away just because more people now go to university. In fact, there are different challenges as first generation students are more likely to stay local, live at home and choose a less prestigious university.

The social mobility point has been well made many times. Is it hard to recognise your own situation until you start to become more mobile and see the differences that exist.

OP describes ‘going to uni’ in a bit of a tick box way , I think there are now ways to get a degree that mean something different to what it used to mean. Open uni / part time / vocational courses etc so you can ‘get a degree’ but maybe not gained the university experience and exposure that creates the mobility ? Just a thought

It is an achievement for them personally, massive one for yheir families and to society in general.
I cannot fanthom how you do not see this. Must be some kind of severe blindness.

I wouldn't say it but try to imagine yourself with parents who are hardly literate (through no fault of their own). You will have to work out everything yourself - that's after getting through school with no help with homework etc or guidance as to the right subjects to take. Then you have to choose your university course on your own and turn up not having the slightest idea what to expect and the feeling that everybody else is far more middleclass than you are (and they really are). You will probably be taking a couple of buses to get there rather than having parents dropping you off. You may be working on smoothing your accent out at the same time - maybe trying to rid yourself of the last traces of a non-Anglo Saxon or working class accent.

I was lucky - my mother told me the three choices were law, accounting and medicine. She would have considered engineering for a boy. She might not have known much about them or even been able to spell them but she had ambitions for me. She had never had the opportunity to even finish high school and neither had my father. As far as she was concerned though there was no such thing as ideas above my station.

My children had a far far easier path. Loads of help with homework, professional tutoring and financial support and parents who could advise on school subject choice and degree subjects. There is no comparison with the struggle of working class first generation children to get a degree. I don't think the OP realises the degree of privilege she started out with.

Not sure what you mean about not recognising the degree of privilege I started out with I already said I acknowledge there’s kids out there who have been abused, neglected, drug addict families etc.
This is about people from normal families who just didn’t go to uni, I’m the first in my family to go to college it’s not a massive deal just times have changed and you didn’t have to go to uni/college back then. I think it’s very rare to have parents who can’t read if you’re my age tbh that would be very unusual and I acknowledge you’re childhood probably would have been very hard if that was the case

@HuskyNew im not jealous or bitter I just don’t think it’s an unusual thing considering barely anyone back in the day went to uni, but if someone wants to take great pride in it fair enough I may of been dismissive in my first few posts because it’s something I’ve only seen on mumsnet so I’m a little emotionally detached from it

Yes OP, lots more people go to university now (since mid 90s, polys becoming universities etc) than historically.

No, it is a big deal for many people to be the first in their family to go to university. It is a sign of valuing learning and education and striving to do something to improve your prospects.

Yes there will be many people who are the first in the family to go.

No, it is becoming harder to go to university now than in the recent past with increased tuition fees and restructuring of student loans and worsening employment prospects.

You are talking to posters on here in their 20s to 70s so talking about "our parents generation" and "back in the day" doesn't make much sense.

What are you planning to do at University, OP? Did your DH go? Will you encourage your kids to go? Did any of your siblings go?

I wonder if you feel that your parents aren't proud of you. There is something to reflect on the fact that you don't see what a big deal something is that you haven't done. It's not very generous minded.

It really isn't the same as buying an iphone. It's about mindset and values and pushing boundaries.

Your post has nothing to do with my post.

i’m saying that there’s a fashion for creative people to claim to come from a disadvantaged background.
Sometimes the fact of them being the first to go to University is used to suggest they come from a disadvantaged background in order to sell more books. It’s being used to mask the fact they come from a middle class/ privileged background , as that’s out of fashion.

Why do you keep saying "barely anyone" went to uni when your parents were younger?

Yes, the numbers were lower than they are now, but it wasn't "barely anyone".

You are in your 20s now, and you say that you didn't grow up in a disadvantaged community, so loads of your peers must have had at least one parent who was university educated?

I apologise that my experience of the situation in question doesn’t fit your narrative. I realise you feel that your view and opinion is the only valid one, perhaps be less narrow minded.

Oh OP. You are wrong on this one. You are articulate and argumentative - but still wrong. There are tons of stories on this thread from people who have walked this path. There is lots of data from recent studies and social mobility groups explaining why it is important and a big deal. Get a grip and read some of the links rather than arguing.

My parents were uni age in the 1980s when only 7-9% of people went to uni. I don’t think many of my peers parents went to uni but I cannot know for sure as I’ve never asked. I grew up in an average town

YANBU. My mum's family were refugees, only moved out of a tent a year before she was born. She has two degrees, the only one out of four siblings. But certainly doesn't harp on about it - it was the most suitable route for her as someone academic.

Besides, everyone and their dog goes to university today...

I don’t want to say too much about myself on here but I will say none of my siblings have been to uni, I am living a better life than my parents and siblings so I doubt they’re disappointed in me

So your argument is that people who went to uni in the 90s were one in five and that is the same as being the first person in your family to own a car in 1920?

It really doesn’t stand up and there’s a rather unpleasant undertone to your posts.

I’ve never ran a marathon, my friend has, this is a bit like me telling her ‘omg well done but it’s no big deal you’ve ran a marathon, loads of people have done it so it’s not particularly hard or impressive’ (except me but let’s ignore that bit)

In the 80s when my parents were uni age it was 7%, it would seem a fair few on this site are older than me and therefore will have older parents so that number will be lower. I’m not saying a degree isn’t an achievement I’m just saying being the first in the family to get one isn’t that unusual

It is in the family though, hence being the first.