To not understand people who talk about being the first in their family to go to uni like it’s a badge of honour?

[Kyrgyzstan]

Sorry if this sounds dismissive of their achievements but isn’t it less of a rags to riches tale of personal achievement and more of a generational difference? I mean barely any of our parents generation went to university and now it’s pretty much expected if you want a half way decent job.

Obviously if you were raised by heroin addicts and managed to still get good grades and go off to uni that’s different but the children of ordinary parents who just didn’t go to university talking about it like a huge achievement sounds a little strange to me?

It will become harder again. Fees rising, cost of living, universities prioritizing overseas students. I think it'll soon be back to how it was.

So your reflection is that we're all old and just don't understand the current situation?
Wrong.
I finished my PhD at the end of last year. it focused on first generation students. Just because the proportion of first generation students has increased it doesn't take away the challenges many of these students still face.
You're coming across as really ignorant and narrow minded.

What gives you the authority to make these claims? You've been told again and again that you are wrong yet you've decided you know better that those of us who actually work in higher education and see these issues first hand.

What issues though? I don’t think I’m being narrow minded I’ve taken on the comments on here from people older than me talking about pre internet and pre sixth form/college tutor giving advice back when you could only go by what your parents told you. I also said from the start of course it’s a huge achievement for a someone who grew up in care, or neglected or abused.
I know it probably seems like the girl who left high school pregnant is just bitter but genuinely even I have everything I need to go to uni so why would merely not having uni educated parents stop someone in this day and age if that’s what someone wanted to do

• for someone not for a someone

People have outlined the issues. You’ve just chosen not to take them on board and have now decided it be use we’re all old and out of touch. I might be older than you but this is literally my job!

This is a summary of the issues you’ve ignored:

You are more likely to go to university if your parents are graduates.

Having parents or close family members who understand how to navigate the higher education system means it is an easier and more natural process- you tend to have the cultural capital which means you’re more likely to feel like you fit in.

First generation students are more likely to choose local and less elite universities.

Deciding whether to go to university as a first generation student is a much bigger decision as it can mean going against cultural norms and you can feel like you’re doing it alone as your parents often can’t offer practical support.

The internet is not a substitute for advice and guidance.

First generation students are more likely to be from disadvantaged groups more generally so are dealing with multiple issues and pressures - poverty, attainment etc.

And yes, you do sound bitter.

The more you reply, the more obvious it is that you didn’t go to uni. And I don’t mean that in an offensive way towards education, I mean the life experience and access to other walks of life.

If you had everything you needed to go to uni, why didn’t you go? Circumstances I am assuming. There are many circumstances that stop people from going, as far ranging as sick parents, needing to get into the workplace to support the family, limited job prospects for graduates in smaller communities, finances, lack in f parental support and a plethora more.

Also if you’re considering going to uni as a mature student, it’s worth looking into whether your preferred uni would like evidence of recent study. I’ve had to advise lots of applicants that their a levels were not recent enough. It’s not always as simple as just having it available sadly.

I’m genuinely not bitter most people go to uni first then have children I’ve merely done it the other way round and I’m very happy with that (like I said my own parents had me when they were older so I’m glad I should hopefully have longer with my kids).

I get it’s an achievement if someone is dealing with multiple issues and pressures I’m talking about just “not having parents who went to uni” here

I don’t think cultural norms of what your parents did matter too much when you’re 18 if you see classmates all around going to uni peer influence is more important by then, there’s a pretty big generational gap between me and my parents they didn’t even go to college let alone uni that didn’t stop me going to college even with a baby

I had a baby at 16 did GCSEs pregnant and went to a college with a nursery so I have everything I need and will be going when my kids are a little older. I’ll look into what you mentioned in your last paragraph though

There’s a whole raft of research that says different though.
You were statistically much more likely to be a teen mum because your parents had no education post 16.
Children of parents who went to university are more likely to go themselves for all the reasons mentioned on the thread.
At the minute you are in your 20s with no university education. You may go to a local university eventually and may graduate one day but statistically odds are against you.

I’m not trying to be difficult here, but surely you can see that you could have gone but didn’t due to circumstance? Someone in the same position might have gone anyway and be really proud of themselves? And by your reasoning that would be pathetic, despite not having done it yourself?

There is a saying ‘blowing out someone else’s flame doesn’t make your own shine brighter’ which you could apply to this situation. Why not let people be proud of themselves for achieving something you haven’t?

I don’t think cultural norms of what your parents did matter too much when you’re 18 if you see classmates all around going to uni peer influence is more important by then, there’s a pretty big generational gap between me and my parents they didn’t even go to college let alone uni that didn’t stop me going to college even with a baby

I am an university academic who has spent the last 15 years working with first generations students. I have researched this area for both my Masters and PhD and I'm now an active researcher in this area. In every bit of research I have done parents come out as the biggest influence on a young persons career and education plans. Other research states the same.

Going to college is not the same as being a first generation university student.

I think you're missing a whole layer of disadvantage that does exist. You are so focused on the fact that you would have everything you need to go to uni now if you wanted to do so, despite not having had degree educated parents, that you can't seem to see beyond that basic fact.

Of course, nobody is saying that you can't go to university because of your family background. Of course you can, and if you decide that you want to, then I would absolutely encourage you to do so. Your kids will also have that opportunity too.

What we are saying is that it's still much easier to go to uni if you have degree educated parents. It's easier for lots of different reasons. Firstly, because the children of degree-educated parents typically grow up with the expectation that they will follow in their parents' footsteps - this makes it less likely that they will drop out of education to have a baby at 16, for example. Secondly because they inevitably get more guidance and support around subject choices, uni choices, study skills and the application process etc. Yes, you can get a lot of info from the Internet these days, but it isn't the same, and you still need to know what to look for/where to look etc.

When you look at the stats, first in family students still face higher drop out rates than students with graduate parents, and they are disproportionately represented in the less prestigious institutions. This reflects a level of disadvantage that is still there and should be acknowledged.

Those of us who are arguing this aren't trying to put you or your children down in any way. Quite the contrary, many of us want to level the playing field so that you and your dc can compete on an equitable basis with people who may have started out in relatively privileged circumstances. But we can only make the system fairer for everyone if we are willing to acknowledge the inequality of opportunities that currently exist.

I’m not trying to be difficult here, but surely you can see that you could have gone but didn’t due to circumstance? Someone in the same position might have gone anyway and be really proud of themselves? And by your reasoning that would be pathetic, despite not having done it yourself?

There is a saying ‘blowing out someone else’s flame doesn’t make your own shine brighter’ which you could apply to this situation. Why not let people be proud of themselves for achieving something you haven’t?

Unfortunately I think this is a case of you being bitter about how your life has turned out and taking the immature approach of saying "It's not that hard, anyone could do it" rather than admitting that you wish things were different. Which explains why you're so adamant in repeating the same thing over and over again even though you have been provided with more than enough information that shows you are wrong.

I hope you do go to university, although I think it's unlikely you will. It would be a great opportunity for you to build some critical thinking skills as well as the ability to take into account both data and external perspectives when forming an opinion.

If you don't go and one of your children ends up being the first in your family to attend university, I'm sure you will feel differently about whether it's something worth being proud of.

1st gen uni here, and while I don’t boast about it or mention it much - it IS an achievement and IS much harder to go to University when you’re from a non-academic, WC background.
That’s just a fact. I now am very passionate about widening participation for WC kids and 1st gen further education kids…
Still, my WC family who left school at mostly 16 are all thriving as they’re builders, farmers, trades people etc. So it’s not as if it’s uni or low-paid jobs the rest of your days, plenty in between.

There are many professions that you need a degree for ( at least at first) law, medicine for example. Many government roles…
and they are stuffed with well off MC people, Upper class people, people from money and private schools… how much better might the world be if we had more WC people, normal people in influential roles in law, policing , government, politics etc who actually represented the majority of the people - not just the wealthy ones??

It sounds like your plan is to be supported financially by partner and go to a local uni when children at school.
Some people of course manage that but there’s plenty of life that can get in way.
Eg local uni doesn’t offer your course or cuts the course (so many HE cuts happening) and you can’t relocate due to his job/kids school. You haven’t got the qualifications to be admitted or they are stale so may need to factor in an access course first.
Uni term times and hours don’t match school, you haven’t got childcare so you miss and fall behind or fail. Or in some cases can’t do course at all if there are placements a distance away or anti social shifts. You may need to work financially as one wage isn’t enough to support a family. You have an illness/another unplanned pregnancy/child diagnosed with additional needs etc and uni takes a backseat. Partner leaves or dies.
If you are genuinely interested there are research papers and studies you can read about why first generation to uni is harder.
Lots of people care about social mobility and there are lots of initiatives to assist.

Covid hit a few months before I finished my college course had to finish it online, then fell pregnant with my second and in all honesty only recently did I realise that practically every decent job requires a degree these days.

Btw I do have a job not an amazing one but my other half has a good one so we’re not on benefits just in case anyone hasn’t read the full thread (don’t want a repeat of the argument I had the other day with the poster who implied I was a waste of space)

Of course you aren't a waste of space. And you don't have to justify your situation to anyone.

If you do decide to go Op please do flag you are first to go on application you may be eligible for contextual offer with lower grades, bursary etc. Even though you don’t think it disadvantaged don’t turn down opportunities.

Did you know that you can edit your post for at least a brief time after posting it?

Yes but for some reason it won’t let me

You've just said yourself that only recently did you realise that practically every decent job requires a degree. That’s the exact kind of knowledge and guidance we’re saying the kids of people who went to university have over those whose parents didn’t. Maybe if your parents had gone to university you’d have realised it much earlier. Or been explicitly told.

Having said that, my mum pushed me going to university and getting a degree because she hadn’t done so and regretted it working in an environment where everyone else was more educated than her and more successful because of it. But because she hadn’t been herself she didn’t know the first thing about Russell Group universities or how to fill out the UCAS form and I had to work that out for myself. She also didn’t know that it’d take more than a degree to get a decent job and I should've also magicked up the right contacts and the ability to work for free for months but that’s a different thread altogether.

What you’re describing is exactly the disadvantage we’re talking about.