To not understand people who talk about being the first in their family to go to uni like it’s a badge of honour?

[Kyrgyzstan]

Sorry if this sounds dismissive of their achievements but isn’t it less of a rags to riches tale of personal achievement and more of a generational difference? I mean barely any of our parents generation went to university and now it’s pretty much expected if you want a half way decent job.

Obviously if you were raised by heroin addicts and managed to still get good grades and go off to uni that’s different but the children of ordinary parents who just didn’t go to university talking about it like a huge achievement sounds a little strange to me?

To be fair to @ForZanyAquaViewer , she has attacked your arguements as well as your character and motivations.

Genuinley just wondered. My partner dropped out after the first year, no one on his side of the family had been before. The achievement is surely getting the degree not signing up and dropping out! So from that side of the family she would be the very first with a degree.

From mine it's my mum whose the first and only currently.

Either way I think it's a big achievement, but I do maintain, only if you actually get the degree at the end. My partner is still paying off the loan with nothing to show for it. Interesting stat someone shared above though about how first in the family students are more likely to drop out.

There are areas at universities dedicated to assisting low SES (socio-economic status) students access and succeed at university. As an amazing Equity Director said "if you can't see it, you can't be it". University can be seen as something done by "others" but never something available to people in their economic situation, certainly not people from their families. In some families you hit 18 and you're on your own, there is zero support and you have to move out and get a job.

Going to uni and completing a university degree is an accomplishment. Education is an acknowledged pathway out of poverty and it is not equally attainable for everyone.

He'd be the first to GRADUATE university then I guess

I’m just now reading the earlier pages of this thread that I only skim read earlier and it seems as soon as I mentioned I had a child at 16 that posters main contribution to this thread became a constant stream of personal attacks.

Anyway before that poster went on the warpath she tried to say “everyone” of her parents generation went to uni, I assume she’s a little older than me but my parents had me later in life so this probably balances out. My parents were born in the 60s so uni time for them would have been the early 80s. Here’s some facts:

In the 1980s, the percentage of young adults in the UK who went to university was low compared to modern rates, generally
ranging between 8% and 19%across the decade. This figure was part of a broader "higher education" participation rate (including polytechnics and colleges of HE) which started around 15% in 1980 and rose to approximately 25% by 1990 for all forms of post-18 education.
Key figures from the decade include:

• Early 1980s: Around 7–10% of school leavers attended the country's 38 universities. In 1980, only 15% of all young adults stayed in full-time education after the age of 18 in any capacity.
• Mid-to-late 1980s: The age participation rate in higher education saw a gradual expansion, with sources indicating a range of 8% to 19% across the 1970s and 1980s.
• Comparison: This was a period when university education was still considered an elite pursuit. The massive expansion of higher education occurred in the late 1990s and beyond, driven by a government target to have 50% of young adults go into higher education, a goal achieved nearly two decades later.

So I actually haven’t said anything incorrect I also haven’t even said a degree isn’t an achievement I’ve merely said it’s not unusual to be the first in your family to go. Not sure why that has her so incensed especially as her own parents and even grandparents apparently went to uni so she has no reason to feel personally attacked

I’ve addressed all your points, often multiple times. As have others. You’re not grasping that (due to poor reading comprehension).

You also don’t really understand what the term ‘ad hominem’ means. Everything I’ve said addresses your stated positions, your own lack of achievement serves as contextualisation in this regard.

Going to university at exactly age 18 doesn’t make you superior to someone who goes at say age 26 because they had their family earlier.

And there we have it. The crux of the matter. Like I said much earlier in the thread, this is you self-soothing due to your own insecurities. Choosing to do that on AIBU, as opposed to in your head, was an interesting choice.

I was busy earlier and only skim read and didn’t bother checking usernames but now I’m going back over the thread I’m seeing practically every personal attack and unnecessarily rude comment was from you! ! And lots of them!!! It’s pretty weird you’re trying to psychoanalyse me when I should be asking why this thread has you on such a warpath?

What exactly is your problem you’ve said your parents and even grandparents went to uni so you can’t feel personally attacked?

she tried to say “everyone” of her parents generation went to uni

No, that’s not what I said at all. I said:

See, this is about perspective. EVERYONE who I know of my parents’ generation went to uni. My grandparents met at uni. For us it’s very very standard and has been for generations.

However, I am self aware enough to realise that this isn’t the case for the majority of people and that for lots of people, uni would have been ’above their station’ and unimaginable even one generation ago. If you’re achieving something that your parents or grandparents wouldn’t have dreamt of, of course that’s an achievement.

Again, reading comprehension.

I’m neither incensed nor do I feel personally attacked (I couldn’t, none of what you’re saying applies to me). I think what you’re saying is wrong, I think your personal circumstances are such that you’re not in a position to say it, and I think you’re rationalising your own lack of achievements by downplaying those of others.

As above. 😊

Again, this is just recounting these figures without looking at the social, cultural and economic climate in which they occurred... I did mention it in a previous comment, but the rise in people achieving degree is tied to deindustrialisation... you can’t really present data without introducing the relevant context otherwise it doesn’t mean much.

Again reading comprehension. Where have I said a degree is not an achievement? I have
merely said its not unusual to be the first in your family to go considering barely anyone did in our parents generation.

All you know about me is that I haven’t yet been to uni and I started my family young and clearly you’ve decided you’re better than me based off that limited information. I’m sure you’ll think you’re hilarious responding with something like “I don’t think I know”.

You can waffle on about your grandparents and insult me all you want the facts remain that barely anyone of our parents generation went to uni and now a lot of people do and it’s almost a rite of passage

ODFOD

Going to uni in your late 20s puts you a decade behind on the career ladder. Your earnings will be much less over your career. You will be reporting to people younger than you and many people can take issue with that. You may even find it a challenge to find graduate roles due to your age.

I think that's sort of the point, though, OP. You didn't go to uni because you had a baby at 16. Perhaps if your parents had gone to uni, you would have expected to go to uni yourself and you wouldn't have had that baby.

If your parents are graduates, then you grow up with the assumption that you will go to university because that's just what people do - to the extent that it can be quite hard to challenge it if a young person chooses a different path. And having that basic starting point probably means that you make different decisions at each step of the way.

ETA: I'm absolutely not criticising you by the way. Just pointing out the differences that can arise between kids from different family backgrounds.

clearly you’ve decided you’re better than me based off that limited information

There’s the chip again.

I’m sure you’ll think you’re hilarious responding with something like “I don’t think I know”

That’s perhaps how you’d respond in my position, but it’s not how I express myself.

You can waffle on about your grandparents and insult me all you want the facts remain that barely anyone of our parents generation went to uni and now a lot of people do and it’s almost a rite of passage

I’m now actually starting to suspect you are trolling.

Of course it depends. I can’t think of anyone in my family who didn’t go to uni (and my mother would be over 100 now if still alive, and she went to Trinity in Dublin). So it was expected. My DH was the first in his family to go - his parents didn’t even know he was applying!
I think for some it is a great achievement, for others it’s just the time we live in as you say.

“the probability of university participation by parental education is 34% for potential first in family students, while for those with graduate parents the probability is 72%.” Source - https://blog.ukdataservice.ac.uk/first-generation-university-students/

Having parents who attended university makes it significantly more likely that you too will attend. So being the first in your family to go means you have overcome odds that others haven’t. Absolutely something worthy of pride.

You have clearly been googling things like “what percentage of people went to uni in the 80s”, which isn’t relevant to your point. Much better to google something like “what percentage of current UK university students are first in their families to go to university” and copy the Google AI overview from that instead, as it’s much more relevant to this discussion.

If you do go to university, you’ll learn to think much more critically and should work on this now so you can keep up with your classmates who will have come straight from education & will have been prepped by their teachers for university level work. While you may have a decade of life experience they don’t have, you need to remember that being away from formal education for a decade will have had a significant impact & yes, the 18 year olds in your class might surpass you easily as they’ll have come straight from an educational setting.
You’ll also need to improve your grammar and comprehension skills before attempting any university applications.

'Going to university at exactly age 18 doesn’t make you superior to someone who goes at say age 26 because they had their family earlier'.

I think we are getting to the bottom of why you have started this thread.

@Kyrgyzstan You continue to throw around a Google summary of the changing student population numbers without articulating how this relates to your original post, which essentially dismissed those who are first in their family to go to university as nothing that special.

The number of people going to university now vs the 1980s does not change the fact that those who are first in their family to go to university (in whatever decade) face barriers that others do not. Did you read the information and statistics that @Gair provided? Given both the data and personal stories provided by so many posters, I am asonished that you still don't understand the breadth of barriers people may face and why they may feel a sense of accomplishment having overcome them.

You mentioned earlier that you've only read on mumsnet people mentioning they are the first in their family to go to Uni. That may be so, but the point of using it is it's a conversational shortcut. They don't need to explain their whole life story or, in fact, give any further personal details because most people understand that, by mentioning they were the first, they encountered one or more of the typical barriers faced by others in their situation.

Interesting other than myself for a year I knew a few others who were neets at 16/17 and hadn’t had a child like me, but they’d finished year 11 so I don’t think anyone knew about them? Maybe the person you know her child dropped out before finishing year 11 or things have gotten stricter since I was that age maybe

I think you are incredibly naive OP.

Why do you aspire to go to university, OP?

I did as an escape, at first. I had universities sending me their brochures back in the 90s when I was 10 and they still sent out paper brochures. There was a clear difference between those where the expectation even before finishing school was to work for income as much as possible, that for many is a normal family, and those where university is normal, living in areas where teenagers can easily access university libraries. It then became the only way not only to get out, but to continue with my interests.

People discussing things in a positive light or saying they are proud of what they've done doesn't mean they are bragging. For it to be bragging, it needs to be excessively boastful. People can just be happy with things they worked towards or statements of fact, as all the examples I'm seeing have been.

I'm not the first in my family - my father went, my grandfathers both went, they benefitted from the US's GI bill and similar that more actively supported them in ways those trying now will really struggle to get. I'm the only one of my siblings to go - I'm the only one without legal/drug trouble, I'm the first woman in my family, to my knowledge, and I got into university based on an email conversation I had with a head of department on his niche - they bent the usual admission rules to admit me based on my interest even though I didn't mean the qualification requirement because, as they said, the way I wrote about it was enough evidence. I'm not sure how many unis would allow that these days.

I said in my op if you’re from an actual dysfunctional family like heroin addicts or alcoholics of course it’s an achievement.

My parents were both addicts for my entire childhood, even the university educated one. They literally got together over sharing drugs. My mother lost custody due to her violence. Dysfunctional would be an understatement.

It was still fairly for me to imagine and work towards university as a way out compared to many of my peers who had no experience of that. I figured if they could do it, I could figure it out. That wasn't true of many I knew who didn't have that around them, even without the drug addict and violence in the family.

Even with more kids going to uni, I think the divide is only getting bigger. I was a governor at local secondary and even with staff very focused on promoting universities, the benefits are becoming less visible as many with degrees are working jobs with those without. I've met more than a few kids who only want to go to uni through a degree apprenticeship or similar route where they get paid because even with so much trying to make it normal, normal in many places is still needing to pay the bills that are only growing. Potentially putting that off/making it much more limited for 3-4 years is not something every young adult can feel is realistic or safe to do.

Lots of personal attacks because I was a young mum but I’m going to uni once my kids are a little older

I was a young mum, had one as a teen, had two more while at university. I have fond memories of writings and finishing my dissertation with a baby sleeping on me. You can likely do it, though to get through the difficulties, a strong reason why is often vital, as it acceptance that it doesn't automatically lead to that better job. There is a reason some industries brought requiring removing dates on 'blind' CVs - there is a hiring bias about those gaps and age.

You’re mid 20s? Yeah then I agree it’s less of a thing nowadays amongst your generation but I’m in my 50s and I was the first one in my family to get a degree in my 30s. And yes I was proud to share that (as were my family).

if you have not been to university ( not the local college or polly ) you may not have spent much time with others from more privileged backgrounds . It’s stark!

you just won’t know unless you’ve been forced to mix. Uni is a leveller.

tall poppy syndrome to yourself - why because you’ve had to develop a tough skin to protect yourself and it’s the culture of the working classes . It’s liberating to break out of it when you realise it’s a self defence mechanism.

I feel proud I can offer intellectual and social advantages to my children at home that my parents couldn’t give me .

Hardly a chip when you’ve spent pages of this thread making it quite clear how you feel, and I’m “trolling” when you’ve made about 30 insulting posts about me over the space of six hours?