WASPI Women - getting compensated

[CanSeeClearlyNowTheRainHasGone]

I've just read this:

The government will reconsider its decision not to award compensation to Waspi women, Work and Pensions Secretary Pat McFadden has said.

And I'm livid at the incompetence of Labour.

Having put the issue to bed once, they are now going to create a heap of trouble for themselves.

Either they decide (again) not to make any payouts - in which case, cue more outrage from WASPI and negative headlines.

Or they decide now that they will make payouts - which goes directly against the whole "we have to raise taxes" budget.

Or are they really so stupid that they're going to carry on paying everyone, raising salaries for Public Sector, 2-child cap, WFP, etc and carry on bleating about a black hole and how we must all pay more tax.

Am I being unreasonable that this seems like madness?

The original state pension was set at an age above that of another average man's life expectancy - thus the plan was that most men would never get one. I'm not sure what the provision/plans were for women, if any. Quite possibly they only saw the men as needing an income back then, with their wives 'tagged on' as an accessory.

I don't know if that was done as they wanted to reward people for living a (for then) long life, get rid of people who were perceived as 'past their sell-by date' out of the workplace or possibly the people who tended to live longer were those in less manual occupations, such as those who were setting the rules for who got pensions...

Either way, I agree: the idea now that the state would pay you an income from when you're 60 for what could easily be another 2, 3 or even 4 decades, sounds insanely attractive!

At the time, they needed the older people out of the workforce to make way for the younger generations coming up behind them.

This. And you are now happy to take this knowing your own children and grandchildren will be scraping to pay this to you. Disgusting. Very very typical of the entitlement of today’s ’old people’ boomer generation. I am ashamed and embarrassed for you. Perhaps you will like to explain to the younger ones of today how this will benefit them in the future?

Your money was what went to the pensioners at the time.

Those were the pensioners who had lived and persevered through two world wars and dreadful times. And you paid them a pittance in their old age.

The current generation of workers are far more generous to today’s pensioners than you ever were. Yet many of today’s pensioners - who were far, far more privileged than their preceding generations - are holding their hands out for more.

I find it somewhat ironic that posters here are castigating Waspi women for not knowing something that was readily available, whilst at the same time displaying a lack of knowledge about the different categories of Waspi women, the nature and timing of the changes made, and the content of the Ombudsman's report, all of which are currently readily available.

There also seems to be a lack of understanding about what information was actually available back then. There was no going online to check your pension forecast. There was only write in, wait for someone to reply, and hope that the reply when it finally arrived was accurate. There was no way you could check it for yourself without a deep understanding of how the system worked.

I find it easy to believe that there were women who were not fully informed through no fault of their own. Knowing that changes are happening is not the same as fully understanding how they are going to affect you personally. The previous State pension system was horrendously complex (indeed, this is one of the reasons it was scrapped). It's hard to appreciate just how complex, but my personal experience is that I was completely unable to work out how my pension was adjusted after my husband's death because it involved knowing how his pension had been made up, which wasn't information that simply wasn't available to me because it was his pension and not mine. It took me two letters (the first of which never received a reply) and three phone calls to track down someone capable of explaining how his age, his pension contributions, and the contracted out element of his pension resulted in a figure which was then not directly payable to me but instead added to my pension entitlement, meaning that it was then further affected by the contracted out element of my own pension. I am reasonably financially astute and computer literate and there was no way I could have worked that out for myself even in this information age.

I also find it easy to believe that there were women who were informed and who planned responsibly for their retirement, but who were significantly and disproportionately disadvantaged by the accelerated timetable brought in at a time when they were already close to retirement, when there was simply not enough time left for them to put any new plans in place.

I don't think the Waspi campaign has done anyone any favours by calling for compensation for all women affected in any way, but that doesn't detract from the fact that many women were badly treated and deserve compensation.

@bestcatlife l know right. Retiring at 60 or even 66 with a pension sounds lovely. Sadly l won't be allowed to do that as lm too far down the pyramid scheme in effect

Yes, you could check it for yourself. For a start, you could ring HMRC and discuss it with them. And you could also do what I also did, which is look up all the information on their website and compare it to your own situation. It was extremely clear and comprehensible. There is no getting around the fact that the information was out there and it’s simply not being a responsible adult to sit there waiting for your pension for forty years+ without taking any steps to verify what your entitlement was.

Maybe it’s because I didn’t have a husband to fall back on, and was more than used to taking responsibility for myself? Isn’t that what people of that generation are always claiming younger people lack? Self determination and personal responsibility.

Same. Except my kids are older than yours: GenX and Millennial.

I also find it easy to believe that there were women who were informed and who planned responsibly for their retirement, but who were significantly and disproportionately disadvantaged by the accelerated timetable brought in at a time when they were already close to retirement, when there was simply not enough time left for them to put any new plans in place.

That’s the category I fall into. I had literally two years notice that my pension age was increasing by three years. I might have dreamed this but I seem to remember that as a result of the 2011 debacle future pension changes must now legally have to give those affected ten years’ notice.

@catontheironingboard I'm not sure whether you're referring to the Waspi issue or to my issues with my husband's pension when you say 'yes you could check it for yourself', but as there wasn't much in the way of information available on the internet back in 2011 I'll assume you're referring to me. If so I've failed to state my point clearly.

Even if information is clear and comprehensible, it's a logical fallacy to infer that that means anyone who can be bothered can easily apply it to their own situation.

In my case I don't dispute that information was out there. But in order to apply it to my own situation I needed details of how my husband's pension was made up. That information was not in my possession nor in anyone's gift. Worse still, confidentiality rules prevented HMRC from sharing it with me because it was to do with someone else's pension, not my own. I wrote to HMRC twice and phoned them three times before I found someone who could answer my questions. I mentioned that as an example of how difficult it can be to get to the bottom of what your entitlement is. It's not always that complex, of course, but it's naïve to assume that because your position is easy to establish then everyone else's is too.

Part of the reason I didn't have the information about my husband's pension is that the contributions in question were made long before I met him, when I was a single woman without a husband to fall back on, and well used to taking responsibility for myself. I did that for thirty years, with a successful career ironically partly in the Inland Revenue, before marrying later in life and taking responsibility for him as well. I specialised in tax rather than in pensions but I am well used to reading and interpreting legislation, and I was genuinely surprised to realise that it was going to be impossible for me to calculate my entitlement. I'm puzzled that you seem to think that if I had tried harder or taken more responsibility it would have been a breeze.

But the retirement ages were not complicated. You could easily ring HMRC and simply request a pension entitlement letter sent to you personally about your own pension, which is what my mother and my MIL and everyone else I know did.

I was able to check in 2006 and 2007 my retirement age and whether I needed to pay voluntary contributions towards my qualifying years with the pre-2011 HMRC pages on the gov.uk website (as well as speaking to HMRC by phone). There was a whole load of information on the gov.uk website in the 2000s about this and about pensions entitlements. It didn’t just appear in 2011!

There was a second change in 2011. That resulted in a spectrum of differing retirement ages for a tranche of 1950s women with incredibly unfair cliff edges. I missed out on four months pension payments because I was born eight hours too late!

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7f02e640f0b62305b84929/spa-timetable.pdf

Are we meant to be shocked at the idea of missing out on four months worth of pension payments? My retirement age got bumped up from 65 to 68. Why is missing out on four months of pension payments so awful? You had to work for FOUR MORE MONTHS?!?! 😮

Houses in my town have more than quintupled in real terms since 2001. Where’s my compensation for the extra £500k I’m owed for not being able to buy a house before it got expensive? University grants were phased out just before I started university. Where’s my compensatory £5k that I unfairly missed out on? At work the final salary pension scheme closed a month before I joined it. Why don’t I get a payout?

I am trying to relate but am genuinely baffled. When the word pension first entered my lexicon I was in my 20s and I learnt that I would retire at 66. Then some time passed and apparently the pension age was now 67. I am 20 years away and I keep reading that it may be 68 by the time I become eligible. Oh, and the lump sum can currently be taken at 57, not 55 as I had planned initially. With the current public discourse, I am now embracing the possibility that I may not have any automatic state pension at all. However, I am planning on it from my pension age. If it becomes means tested I may not get it. And I am 20ish years away. Even shorter notice than what Waspi women got.

Is it not the same? Government "changing goalposts" and "breaking social contract". Shall I claim compensation too then? Oh and by the way nobody "informed me" about all this raising pension age. I just learnt about it naturally as a responsible person who is planning their retirement.

Waspi women are unbelievable in their feeling of entitelement.

No, you’re not meant to be shocked. It was to illustrate how appalling the transition arrangements were and how difficult it was to make sense of the limited information available, not an appeal for sympathy. My pension aged increased more than yours, by the way.

And I am 20ish years away. Even shorter notice than what Waspi women got.

I got two years notice of the 2011 change. 🤷‍♀️

Some people miss out on free nursery hours because their kid turns 9 months on the 2nd of April and they only get hours from the September term - where I live that's worth over £6.5k in post-tax nursery fee savings.

Cliff edges are stupid in many cases although I cannot see a way you could practically avoid cliff edges entirely if you are trying to gradually increase the age. How would you have done it?

Not had break off points several months apart for a start. I didn’t know that about nursery hours - I’d be fucking enraged if I was in the position of those parents.

The top 1% of earners hold 10% of household wealth, but contribute 28% of UK income tax. Can we go easy on the lazy “millionaires need to pay more” arguments?

I find the UK’s hatred of success and the view that someone else should pay for the services everyone is receiving utterly baffling. A tiny proportion of high earners quite rightly underwrite huge amount of the UK’s public spending but just get hatred in return.

Well said

the irony of the ignorance of some people is amazing

I have not one iota of sympathy for the WASPI women and think they should get not an extra penny. They have to take responsibility for their own lack of planning.

When the women who born in the 50sbegsn their working licence was very difffernt , someone born in 1950 would have most likely begun working in 1966. At that time no equal pay, less protection and a world where when women had children most gave up work. They would have Nolan’s for a retirement at 65 as the law was different the , expectations and societal norms were different. The change in the retirement age has impact all and there needs to be a cutoff but given the time frame I believe the waspi women should be compensated. In addition Labour promised this before they came to power.

We hear you. No generation has ever had it worse than yours and the wars, 14% interest rates of the 80s, rampant inflation of the 70s and rubbish maternity entitlements and no childcare subsidies of the 90s are just figments of our imagination 🙄

School leaving age wasn’t raised to 16 until 1972, it was 15 in 1965

some discrimination in pension schemes meant married woman could join - this was stopped through the equality act in 2010

Couldn’t join some pension schemes

catontheironingboard

youve had 3 years added to your working life before state pension

Ive had 7 years added to mine - but I’ve had over 2 decades to plan for that and easy accessible information on internet. Also without further changes. Though those born in 1971 are looking at possibly 10 years change within their 4 faces of working life

youve had 4 decades to plan for those 3 years, you’ve not been sacked for being pregnant without it being illegal