To think feminism’s biggest blind spot is female entitlement?

[FairGameJay]

We talk about male privilege all the time but we rarely look at the ways women leverage social sympathy. AIBU to think equality means accountability too, even when it’s uncomfortable?

I think you're confusing character traits that may be present in some individuals, some of whom may be women, with a political movement designed to further the rights of women and girls. I'm struggling to see how behaviour you claim to be exhibited by some women has any relevance to women as a group seeking to further our rights? Are you suggesting that because some women make poor choices, or exhibit poor behaviour, feminists should stop campaigning?

YAWN

I've known just as many men who do that.

Not quite, I meant when anyone avoids reflecting on their part in a situation. I just think we talk a lot about men’s accountability (which is fair) but we don’t always hold ourselves to the same level of scrutiny. It’s about balance, not blame.

This sounds like a lot of waffle.

Any clear examples? How are women entitled?

Still word salad.

If you actually have a point to make, then give us some concrete examples of what you mean. Then we can have a proper conversation.

I'm going to wait for this to make sense before...

I think feminism has a history of the opposite -sometimes not extending enough grace to women who don’t meet their own standards of strength and courage. Although this is tempered by their advocacy work for the vulnerable.

I think that some of the most effective feminists fail to recognise the privilege they hold by having decent men in their lives (fathers, partners) or the absence of deadweight men. There can be a tendency to judge other women for making poor choices, without understanding the extent of their privilege. That in my opinion is the biggest blind spot.

It’s not a question without merit, but I don’t think you’ve fully considered the immense structural inequalities that feminism is trying to address. There is a lot of good literature on this and I’d be happy to suggest some reading if you’re genuinely asking in good faith.

No, I think women are held to the absolute highest - and often most unreasonable - standards of responsibility in society. What you're interpreting as female entitlement or some kind of leniency is women not being able to meet those ridiculous standards.

Why are you talking in such vague terms? Your words are meaningless because none of us actually have any idea what you're talking about.

Why are you ignoring the requests for specific examples?

If you’re going to start a debate, your starting point needs to be coherent. I’ve read and reread the OP and cannot get a proper sense of what you mean. Perhaps try again

I’m not saying feminism as a movement should stop campaigning or that equality work isn’t vital. I just think that alongside fighting for rights, we also need to be able to look inward and hold women accountable where needed too. Real equality means being open to self-scrutiny, not because women are worse but because we’re human and social dynamics cut both ways.

I agree, there is nothing to debate so far.

Things like expecting emotional labour from men without recognising it as a two-way street or assuming our feelings automatically take priority in an argument because we’re the more ‘sensitive’ gender. It’s not about blaming women, just noticing where social sympathy sometimes turns into double standards.

You keep saying 'real equality' but what you're talking about doesn't seem to reflect anything real about sex dynamics in society.

To be clear, you're saying that feminism encourages a mindset about women as the 'sensitive gender'?

What a load of waffle.

Women are ALWAYS accountable, we're never given leniency, its always our fault.
Too loud
Too chatty
Too soft
Too kind
Too Harsh
Too forward
Shouldn't have worn that/said that/done that/been there

We are given zero leeway in any place, by any person.

We are held to impossible standards, way up on a pedestal and lambasted from one end to the other should be falter from that projected image of perfection for one second.

Show me ANY woman who has never been found accountable for her actions, her life, and her situation... and i'll show you a unicorn.

'Ourselves as women', is it? Well perhaps you could start us off with an example, where you as a woman felt you didn't reflect and scrutinise yourself and hold yourself as accountable as a man would have done in the same position? Then we can see if it resonates at all with how we behave 'ourselves as women'.

Again, do you have a specific example?

Your post reminds me of All Her Fault, which I'm currently watching, where everyone around the women are holding them to insane levels of accountability that the men just aren't held to (so far anyway) - and holding themselves to those same levels. I know a lot of women feel that's reflecting something real.

You are really generalising. Maybe try and be more concise in your argument.

The poster was asking for a clear example. That wasn't an example at all.

I'm astonished that you think women aren't expected to perform emotional labour for men. I also don't recognise any of what you are saying about a lack of accountability, reflection or self awareness. Quite the opposite in fact.

And as you appear to be unable and/or unwilling to offer any concrete examples of what you're actually talking about, I am calling bullshit on this entire thread.

You're either on the wind-up or you're a bloke with a grudge against women.

Hello three word username with your ChatGPT-generated question of the day about why women are shit. Off you toddle now.

just waiting for him to cite the ‘matriarchy!’

I wonder how many MN chickens can fit in a pie.