AIBU to think this tutor has an attitude?

[SoCloseToNothing1981]

First time posting on here (long-time lurker). I'm not sure what I'm looking for here tbh, maybe just a hand-hold or just (brutally) honest opinions, but I'm just feeling a bit weird about a Zoom call I had with my DS' history tutor yesterday. I might be overreacting but it's just left a bad taste in my mouth.

Me and DH decided to get DS a tutor for GCSE History. He's in Year 11 and he's had a bit of a shit time with the course. When he was choosing his options in year 9, his history teacher did recommend that he do geography instead because his essay-writing and memory surrounding dates was not good (he did roughly the same in terms of achievement in both history and geography). The thing is he is interested in it, but he just can't remember key dates very well. The thing is he wants to do history at A Level. I feel bad for him because he likes the subject, but he's just not very good at it and obviously that's problematic if he is considering this subject as a potential academic or career pathway.

So we meet this tutor and he says in our initial meeting with him that tutoring is to complement ongoing revision. I don't agree with this because I view tutoring as teaching my DS how to revise. The tutor says that he likes to do a baseline assessment with the students so he can determine their areas they need work on, which again I found a bit overkill because why are you already testing DS when you haven't taught him how to revise yet?? We scheduled a lesson for later that week, but DS was running a little bit late as he'd woken up late so we only had 30 minutes of a lesson with the tutor (it's all done on Zoom). DS thought he had been working on the Cold War that week in school and so the tutor set him some questions on the Cold War. DS, bless him, really struggled with the first question so didn't have time to look at the rest of the questions. The tutor ran through the questions with DS, and that was when DS realised he hadn't actually done the Cold War and he'd gotten the name confused with something else.

The tutoring has been going on for 2 months, and the tutor scheduled a Zoom call with me to basically tell me that we may want to reconsider choosing History as an A Level option. This really caught me off guard, and it came across as him telling me how to parent my child! He said that there are loads of issues regarding essay-writing and analysing sources and interpretations, and whilst he is totally happy to support DS with this he can't ignore the fact that if these skills aren't being mastered in Year 11 history then this is going to severely set DS back when he starts Year 12. I ask the tutor about what revision methods he has taught DS, and the tutor said that the subject knowledge is a key area of weakness, and DS apparently said to him that he doesn't make notes in the lessons because his teacher isn't good. I said to the tutor that I think DS just needs to be taught how to create his own quizzes, and how to create flashcards and mindmaps. The tutor said that with mocks coming up those "knowledge gaps" need to be filled in. But I'd prefer him to prioritise teaching DS how to revise history, and if I'm asking for a particular service surely I should receive it?

So, AIBU to think this tutor has a bit of an attitude and is overstepping the mark a bit? I don’t need him to tell us which subjects DS should or shouldn’t do at sixth form, I just want him to teach DS how to revise properly!

OP DS is in Y12 and doing history A level, he got an 8 at GCSE and the jump up is huge - he also got 8’s in English Lang & Lit and Classics, he’s humanities inclined.

It really doesn’t sound like your DS is well suited to take it forward to A level. The volume of essay writing, ability to construct arguments and remembering facts is enormous. If he’s finding it hard at GCSE he’ll find it ten times harder at A level, it really doesn’t sound like he is all that interested if he’s not taking notes and getting the Cold War muddled up with something else. I agree with PP’s that he sounds like he has some big knowledge gaps, and the priority should be fixing those at this stage rather than teach in him to revise. Revision is about cementing your knowledge, but it doesn’t sound like that knowledge is secure yet.

DS is also sporty, he runs 6 times a week and competes, but last year, his sport had to take a back seat over his studying. I really think you should discuss with your DS that cricket might need to be dropped whilst he gets through his exams.

I’ve taught maths for 30 years and tutor occasionally. I know tutors can be hard to come by, so a university student, while they will be great at their subject, won’t necessarily have the skills need to help. Teaching is a skilled job and teaching weaker students is hard, with skills developed over time. The tutor won’t have any experience of being a lower ability student, or teaching or marking.
I’d also suggest your son considers other options for post-16. For students who are going to be weak A-level students, (coming in with 5s and 6s in GCSEs means you are likely to get Grade D and E’s at A-level). These students will be much more successful in BTECs and will score more highly and so able to go on to University if they want.

This as well.

Start looking with him at what local colleges offer in your area.

Lots of actual tutors are that, it doesn't make them not an actual tutor. They're working above the level they're tutoring at. This particular tutor sounds very switched on and good at their job.

It's always really hard accepting the difficult truths, but your DS is having a shit time with GSCE History because he doesn't have the natural aptitude for it, and he's not putting in the work to try to compensate for this. As he's not putting in the work, he cannot be as interested in it as you/he thinks he is, and you're just throwing good money after bad.

Your DS being bad at history is not the end of the world. There are very few jobs and career paths that require excellent history skills - he has so many options still open to him! How is he getting on with his other subjects and extracurriculars? Are there other areas which you can encourage/nurture more?

Your DS's school teacher is apparently to blame for why he can't take notes in class and is failing. Your DS has burned through two bad tutors. He's onto his third bad tutor. That's four adults who specialise in history at a far more senior level than DS who have been unable to teach him properly.

At what point does it become obvious it's not the teacher and it's the child?

Money can help give certain advantages, but you cannot fix everything with money.

If you had a million pounds to spend on extra tuition for me (thanks!) then you'd still still never get me to do a simple cartwheel. Everyone has their own limits, and it can frustrating when those limits are below our own limits, and our own expectations.

DS is fine being bad at history. I'm fine not being able to do a cartwheel.

Your DS has been hugely disorganised, distracted, and failed at learning through standard techniques... so I thought I'd just ask if he had shown any indicators of neurodivergence? If he's only struggling with one specific subject, the symptoms here are almost certainly symptoms of Teen Boy. But if there any other issues elsewhere in his schooling or personal life, undiagnosed neurodivergence can explain why something simple is apparently unteachable.

I've tutored neuroatypical students before and transformed failing students into passing students simply by changing the study methods. The methods I've used with them have not been methods any other tutor has recommended, but they've worked.

But if your DS is doing fine in every other subject, it's unlikely that he is being let down by traditional learning methods that don't work for his brain. I know MN is very anti the existence of neurodiversity, but some people are neurodivergent and they are just as bright and capable as neuroatypical people, but need to have their learning reframed in a very slightly different way.

Incidentally... I'm not sure cricket three times a week is important if a boy is tanking a subject. Unless, of course, he has has a huge amount of energy that needs to be burnt off for him to cope... in which case, I refer to my neurodiversity question mark.

You haven't said enough for me to think it's a real possibility, but in grasping at straws for an explanation, it's the only one left I can see.

I hope you don't think I'm being overly harsh. You clearly love your DS and want the best for him - you wouldn't have persevered with three tutors otherwise, or ferry him around to extracurriculars - but I do think there is a mismatch between the life you want for your DS and the life that is right for him.

Trying to push a non-academic kid into academic success is not as supportive as you might think. Far kinder to help him find what's right for him and encourage that.

If he is actually good at cricket, he probably is pretty good at teamwork, and that's a far more useful life skill than being able to remember the dates of some random war.

Two choices really. Knuckle down and do the three hours pw, drop cricket for a few months. Give up on history and accept a 2 or 3. I've worked as a tutor, we aren't miracle workers. Also it sounds from your recent posts like you're the one who wants him to do A-level history? If he's struggling with it it probably isn't a good choice.

I haven’t read the whole thread and some of your ideas are quite bizarre but:

A uni student isn’t a teacher. If you want a qualified tutor, hire someone who is a qualified teacher with experience.

Baseline testing is really important. It is called ‘assessment for learning’. If you don’t know where a pupil is, you can’t get him to where he needs to go.

You can’t have everything in life. If a pupil wants to go from a 2-3 to a 6+, he will have to commit. Maybe cricket needs to go for a few months.

Finally, realistically, a 6 will probably map to at best a C and more likely a D at A level. Of course, there are rare exceptions, but that is a pretty solid rule.

If you are doing a subject for the love of it, there is nothing wrong with a C, but you won’t get into many (any?) decent unis with it.

You need to have a deep think about all the above and discuss it with your son. Together, you can then figure out what you want.

Head of History here. I teach KS3, GCSE and A Level. I'm also an examining marker. I don't tutor, I haven't got the time. Will try and be as neutral as possible.

Firstly, a uni student isn't really a tutor. They don't have any background in pedagogy (how people learn) and their subject knowledge will be juvenile compared to an actual graduate, with a Masters, a PGCE and several years of teaching experience. You get what you pay for.

Teachers advised against history but DS did it anyway. OK, that's a done deal. We are where we are. It's actually OK for a kid to want to take a subject because they have a genuine interest in it.

He wants to do it at A Level - you really need to listen to the teachers this time round. If DS doesn't have the academic ability to do it, then that can't really be changed.

The first thing I do in a revision session is work out which areas the kids are weakest in. The way I do this is by getting them to RAG rate their own knowledge. I don't know, they might be amber on causes of the Cold War, green on increasing tensions and red on detente. This tells me where my highest leverage points are. If they're red on everything, then we've got a big problem.

I'm unsure how you'd get the Cold War confused with something else. DS will be doing 4 different strands. He really does need to know the very simple key words that go with each, e.g. Cold War, Weimar, Empire, etc. These aren't really very confusing.

This is alarming: 'Subject knowledge is a key area of weakness, and DS apparently said to him that he doesn't make notes in the lessons because his teacher isn't good.' Firstly, making notes is the way a learner transfers information from their short term memory into their long term memory, i.e. the way they learn. Revision methods such as quizzes, flashcards and mind maps are designed to help students recall key facts from their long term memory. But if there aren't any facts in their long term memory because they didn't do the learning, then there's nothing for them to recall.

In terms of you paying for a service, depends, if you're paying for a revision tutor, sure, you're correct. However, from the sounds of what you've said, your DS seems to need an additional history teacher, so a revision tutor won't be able to help him.

Secondly, not sure about your DS's school, but our GSCE students are assessed every two weeks to check their understanding. What were his grades like for the whole of Y10?

Anyway, if I were you I'd sack off the revision tutor. It will be almost impossible for him to re-teach your DS an entire curriculum in a few months.

I'd also buy the revision guides from the exam board - they'll be published separately for each unit. They're not too overwhelming, i.e. quite small. This will also give your DS the flexibility he seems to need to complete his revision. But you'll have to do it with him. I should imagine the school also provide their own revision resources. You could ask your DS's teachers to give you the course spec. He might not do too well in his mocks, however, following the revision guides could bring him up to speed for his actual GCSEs

Have a really good hunt around for other resources, for example, on Netflix at the moment there's a good 'Turning Point' docu about the Cold War. BBC Bitesize / iPlayer also has some great stuff. You can set this as 'research' for your DS and then watch together. Get him to explain why this is relevant to his GCSE. This shouldn't be too much of a ball ache if your DS has a genuine interest in history.

Also check out 'Save my Exams' and Seneca (where there are quizzes). I don't know which course / units your DS is studying, but 'The History Teacher' on youtube might cover some of the content in her student friendly revision series.

IF the tutor really did start shouting, why on earth would you carry on sessions with him? Or was he simply talking loudly to drown out your protests that your son needs downtime, as though it's somehow the tutor's fault he's failing the subject?

I'm also staggered that despite being a parent clearly very invested in her son's education, you had no idea how he did in his mocks!

It’s not about what you want. My mum wanted me to be a doctor but I wasn’t good at science.
I became a history teacher instead. 🤣

If he’s getting 2’s there is absolutely no way A level History is right for him. It will be a miserable two years and the chances of getting a grade would be small.

At this stage of year 11 he should not have substantial gaps in knowledge and really must have at least some idea of how to analyse sources.

What exam board and options is he doing. I will recommend some resources for you.

MN isn't remotely "anti the existence of neurodiversity"!

Goodness me, you can't move on here without people asking (in good faith) if someone is neurodiverse and LOADS of posters and members of their families have direct exof neurodiversity.

Couldn’t you just tutor your son, OP? Then you can do it exactly when he wants and how he wants. You can make notes for him etc. @SoCloseToNothing1981

There is a bis step up from GCSE‘s to A-Levels and if your DS is struggling with the essential skills required ie analysis and essay writing it is reasonable for the Tutor to advise him against it. How many A-Level subjects is he taking? Does he have other subjects he excels in? Choosing the wrong subject will be very frustrating for him. Unless he has a very specific career in mind he should play to his strengths and take teachers’ advice on board.

@SoCloseToNothing1981 I’m a teacher. ‘How to revise’ skills absolutely have their place but their benefits will only ever be very very shallow if there are fundamental gaps in knowledge and skills. They’re like the icing on the cake. Any good tutor would want to do a baseline assessment because there is no point them going over approaches to revision (which for the basics you’re talking about, any teacher and many parents could do) without a secure understanding of your son’s grasp of history and historiography. It sounds to me like the tutor knows what they’re doing. I’m not suggesting you have to take on their advice about A Level History; if it’s a true passion of your son’s then it might (emphasis on might) just be worth persevering with, but I would suggest listening to the tutor’s advice on the focus of the tutoring sessions. It sounds like your son’s approach to the subject would need to change quite substantially if continuing to A Level and to have a better chance of success at GCSE.

I agree with this post op.

Also, up to a point we are all "interested in history." Some are gripped by morbid fascination with the Titanic story, others love a battle strategy, while still others are interested in how domestic life looked in Victorian times, or Georgian costume, or enjoy the occasional historical novel or biography.

The fact that some of these things might catch people's fancy doesn't make them candidates for A level History. In fact, it isn't always the colourful bits that get studied - and certainly your DS doesn't like the Cold War! What needs to appeal to him is the syllabus and the particular way that marks are gained in History courses - which I am sure kills the joy for many.

I don't think your DS is cut out for it, and, while I respect you trying to guide him to something you think is useful on his CV, I do think you need a realistic re-think of the best path for him. I'm sure if you can be honest with each other and open to things outside your expectations, he will find his way. But he needs to be on board too.

OP, I loved history and I have an undergraduate degree in history. I also have poor memory and the reality is that the way history is taught in schools, still, is hugely not helpful. In my case, what that meant was that I aced essays and work done at home, but barely scraped through exams. At uni, I came out with a solid overall mark of just under a first (in a different country so different system) but that's because 40% of my mark was from essays and coursework.

Your son appears to have multiple issues with history:

He has poor working memory which is no thelped by him not taking notes and therefore not having tools to help him revise.

Revision support will only get him so far with a poor memory.

In addition, the tutor is telling you that his ability to understand sourcing, interpretation, analysis etc is another problem. This means that even if he didn't have to do the memory work - ie for essays/homework at home or in the event of an open book exam (which, in my opinion, is how history SHOULD be tested), he would still do badly.

This is not entirely surprising - you say he's quite good at maths and science. These are intrinsically different skills.

My advice is work with the tutor to get him through GCSEs but, most likely, you need to abandon any suggestion of doing history at A Level. If he really wants to continue with history, it may well be that modern universities offer courses that are far less reliant on rote learning, but my concern would be that he still doesn't have the skills to analysis and assess the information he's presented with.

Having said that, I work as a receptionist so not really on the education front but I’ve got friends who are teachers and I hear a lot from them about teaching

This is what is meant by "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". As evidenced by you steering your DS into this subject that will be 'good for his CV' when his actual teacher advised against it for GCSE because he doesn't have the ability and blatantly does not have the interest, work ethic or intellect needed to study it. If cricket and downtime is what really matters to him, and clearly it is, then admit that and stop blaming this tutor, and all other tutors and teachers for not turning your son into something he is not and frankly doesn't even want to be. Not knowing his mock results says a lot about your lack of insight into the reality, so forget about tutoring for history, get back to basics on who your DS is and what he might genuinely achieve and focus on going forward. Three hours of tutoring on history a week is utterly pointless, and doing it for A level is deluded.

Good luck with that suggestion bearing in mind that so far OP doesn't appear to have listened to any of the good advice on offer. I'm not convinced Jesus Christ himself could help in this case.

It's also informative that you're a school receptionist with your take on DS being late for his first tutor session. Telling someone to grab a coffee and hang around while a kid faffs around finding a charger for a laptop that should've been charged is just the kind of thing you've got used to in your day job but it's 100% not acceptable for most people with a sense of punctuality and purpose. Likewise you're overly focused on what you perceive as this tutor being rude or talking to you in a way you don't like, but they aren't a receptionist. They're not there to put on a front and be super polite covering up whatever's really going on. They're another adult (even if they're a uni student) being straight with you and you should be able to handle that without a load of sugarcoating. Clearly you sugarcoat a lot for your DS 'bless him' and he's got away with murder. It's fair enough for the tutor to speak frankly at this point and hopefully it's got through to you, at least enough to discount the mad plan of a history A level.

"I don't appreciate people pointing out exactly what I'm actually doing"

Such an insightful post on the different ways of learning and assessing learning.

I realise that focus is slightly off-topic on this thread, but this could be a helpful post on so many education threads - especially the "choice of school" threads where so many parents can't see beyond league tables of GCSE result outcomes.

Ah, the expert school receptionist...

1. Some people are not academically bright
2. Some people are also lazy
3. This does not mean they are neurodivergent
4. When it comes to studying for GCSEs, cricket is downtime

This tutor knows exactly what's expected and the difference between GCSE and A Levels and is telling you bluntly what's what

And you want to cry because he's not doing what you want

🍎 and 🌳 come to mind.

OP, you’re basically living in a fantasy world and don’t want to see what’s blatantly obvious to everyone else, including the tutor and everyone else on this thread.

Your son is clearly over-indulged and lacking commitment to his academic work, which you’re expecting a tutor to wave a magic wand to fix for him. He hasn’t even bothered to make notes for whole chunks of the year and your focus is on having the tutor help him make mind maps and flash cards You’re focusing on completely the wrong things and your DS is going to end up paying the price for it.

If he was my child, his extra curricular activities would be being knocked on the head for a while and I’d be dedicating as much of my own free time as possible to helping him catch up academically. I can guarantee this problem isn’t unique to history.