AIBU to think this tutor has an attitude?

[SoCloseToNothing1981]

First time posting on here (long-time lurker). I'm not sure what I'm looking for here tbh, maybe just a hand-hold or just (brutally) honest opinions, but I'm just feeling a bit weird about a Zoom call I had with my DS' history tutor yesterday. I might be overreacting but it's just left a bad taste in my mouth.

Me and DH decided to get DS a tutor for GCSE History. He's in Year 11 and he's had a bit of a shit time with the course. When he was choosing his options in year 9, his history teacher did recommend that he do geography instead because his essay-writing and memory surrounding dates was not good (he did roughly the same in terms of achievement in both history and geography). The thing is he is interested in it, but he just can't remember key dates very well. The thing is he wants to do history at A Level. I feel bad for him because he likes the subject, but he's just not very good at it and obviously that's problematic if he is considering this subject as a potential academic or career pathway.

So we meet this tutor and he says in our initial meeting with him that tutoring is to complement ongoing revision. I don't agree with this because I view tutoring as teaching my DS how to revise. The tutor says that he likes to do a baseline assessment with the students so he can determine their areas they need work on, which again I found a bit overkill because why are you already testing DS when you haven't taught him how to revise yet?? We scheduled a lesson for later that week, but DS was running a little bit late as he'd woken up late so we only had 30 minutes of a lesson with the tutor (it's all done on Zoom). DS thought he had been working on the Cold War that week in school and so the tutor set him some questions on the Cold War. DS, bless him, really struggled with the first question so didn't have time to look at the rest of the questions. The tutor ran through the questions with DS, and that was when DS realised he hadn't actually done the Cold War and he'd gotten the name confused with something else.

The tutoring has been going on for 2 months, and the tutor scheduled a Zoom call with me to basically tell me that we may want to reconsider choosing History as an A Level option. This really caught me off guard, and it came across as him telling me how to parent my child! He said that there are loads of issues regarding essay-writing and analysing sources and interpretations, and whilst he is totally happy to support DS with this he can't ignore the fact that if these skills aren't being mastered in Year 11 history then this is going to severely set DS back when he starts Year 12. I ask the tutor about what revision methods he has taught DS, and the tutor said that the subject knowledge is a key area of weakness, and DS apparently said to him that he doesn't make notes in the lessons because his teacher isn't good. I said to the tutor that I think DS just needs to be taught how to create his own quizzes, and how to create flashcards and mindmaps. The tutor said that with mocks coming up those "knowledge gaps" need to be filled in. But I'd prefer him to prioritise teaching DS how to revise history, and if I'm asking for a particular service surely I should receive it?

So, AIBU to think this tutor has a bit of an attitude and is overstepping the mark a bit? I don’t need him to tell us which subjects DS should or shouldn’t do at sixth form, I just want him to teach DS how to revise properly!

Oh please--OP kept digging her grave with every new post she made! (And this, incidentally, is my varnished response; you don't want to read my unvarnished one!)

The tutor is a saint putting up with all of this. Your son can't revise topics that he is yet to learn/understand, so I'm not sure why you're fixating on revision techniques. If you're not prepared to put the time into filling his gaps in knowledge with the tuition sessions because his sports are more important then what do you expect the tutor to do? Im baffled by your mindset on this. There's no magic wand that the tutor can wave - your son has to actually knuckle down and do the work.

Hi, OP -

Academic here. I did tutoring as an undergraduate though in STEM subjects and not in the UK. I enjoyed it and could be selective. I am not sure whether I would think it was good for your DS to continue either the subject, for his sake, or the tutoring, for mine.

It is a difficult situation all around. IMO there are pros and cons (aside from the financial advantages) to working with undergraduate tutors. Plusses include that a YP is close to the A level material, can in theory empathise, can often relate to the tutee’s life, etc.
Against this, a tutor who found the material interesting and/or easy, and who has a strong work ethic, may fail to appreciate that many differ on one or all counts. That is a recipe for disaster.

Whatever your DS may say, his actions are telling you that he has some real problems with History. To run through various possibilities, are essay subjects in general a weakness? Could dyslexia/ADHD or a similar issue be a factor? If so DS will need to decide whether the extra effort is worth it, even with the mitigations he would be entitled to. Even if he loves History there may be other subjects more compatible with the workings of his brain. I have a PhD in one of those subjects that many people find intimidating, but as much as I love Art and Music sadly I cannot draw or sing for shit. That’s life.

Also I wonder how you can be sure that DS’ interest in History is genuine? Could History be a family tradition, could he think it desirable for his career prospects, could he be romantically interested in someone who has expressed an interest in A level History, or in the teacher? I wouldn’t expect him to share all those motivations with you.

The facts that DS has no lecture notes, overslept a meeting, messed up a meeting time while you were away, had the problem with his charger suggest either a clinical condition or that he’s telling you something the only way he can.

Maybe the tutor’s comment ‘take it or leave it’ was not the most tactful, but that is the least of your problems.

I would suggest DS and the tutor work until Xmas, but only if they both see the possibility that this could be productive. Then they should mutually reassess. Given DS’ weaknesses, he needs to feel comfortable with his tutor and confident that he has an ally. But no good tutor will want to waste their time with the behaviours you have described.

Best wishes

I doubt she even realises 2's and 3's are D's & E's.

And she thinks he's still doing History A levels?!!

The delusion here is staggering.

@SoCloseToNothing1981 What good is a failed subject going to be on his cv? It doesn't matter who you get to tutor him he's unlikely to pass.

The pushing for learning how to revise is irrelevant because your son has not learnt anything to revise.

Well ... I dunno: I might find it entertaining - BUT I'm sure OP doesn't want to!

A clearer picture is emerging!

From the outset of this thread it has been clear that your son isn't interested in history himself - he has shown no motivation or even a vague inclination.

You want him to do history because you think it will look good on his CV. Drop that notion now, because a fail in history will look much worse than a pass in a subject you think is less academic. From what the tutor has said he's unlikely to even pass GCSE history; there is no chance he could get an A-level.

Let your son do subjects he's interested and has a vague competency in. If you keep up with the tutor in hopes of getting a pass at GCSE, listen to what he says and follow his lead.

Abandon the idea that because your non- teaching job happens to be in a school you know better than the tutor what is required for you son to pass.

Usually, I think parents tend to not get involved enough in their children education, for instance with advice and guidance when it comes to choosing A levels or uni degree.

You're the first parent I would advise to stay away from their child's studies! Please stop, and let him be guided by his teachers, tutors and his dad. You are not helping him here.

I though she meant tests/exams in history rather than all subject got 2/3 in mocks.

If all the subject mocks were 2/3 the advice would be to focus on maths/english language GCSE and 3 best other subects get to a 4 preferable 5 and look at alternatives to A-levels.

I think it's just history - though she'd be very wise to check directly with school staff with rest of the subject lack of effort in Y11 boys isn't a unknown problem - and it seems his Y9 history teacher thought it a bad choice from off.

Also - how is it that you didn't know what his mock results were?

We can't all be good at everything, OP. It just doesn't sound like history is your son's subject.

(NB I have read all of your updates including your discussion with the tutor this afternoon, but haven't read all of the responses you've had, so this is based on what you've said about what's been happening and what the tutor has said to you.)

You keep talking anout revision skills ..
You can't 'revise' something that you don't know.. the basic bones of knowledge must be there in the first place. That would apoear to be what your son is missing.
You are flogging a dead horse and several tutors here!

She said she completely agrees with me that revision techniques are important, and she gave me an example she did with her own class where she set her year 10's a task where they had to make a mind-map of key themes from An Inspector Calls and then use it to plan an essay. She said even her weaker students improved loads because they could visualise the connections between characters and themes. That's exactly what I've been trying to get this tutor to do! I don't see why it's so hard to integrate something like that into a history topic and then create an essay plan afterwards. I mentioned this in the call I had yesterday with the tutor, and he was fixating on how he is not confident of DS hitting his target grade of a 5 in his mocks in December!

In order to REVISE you need to KNOW what you've covered and UNDERSTAND them.

It sounds like DS has so many knowledge gaps that they need filling BEFORE revision can start.

And yes, I am an ex teacher, so I know.

I would never recommend a child start revising a topic they haven't learned anything about yet!

A mind map with key dates is not going to help him write a well formed essay on a topic IF HE DOESN'T HAVE A DEEPER UNDERSTANDING OF IT, especially if he's not even good at essay questions.

Maybe consider getting an English tutor too, to help him with PEA paragrahs?

Apologies for the capitals but you don't seem to be getting it, OP!

I mean, you're accusing him of criticising your parenting (a leap of the sort which I hope you stretched before making) and also not respecting his expertise as a tutor. He told you his unbiased observations, you disregarded them, and only now in updates now that you see actual mock results are thinking perhaps he might have a point.

The tutor is being realistic and you are doing nothing but defending your DS, who is not applying himself to his studies. Your DS does not need defending at this point; what's currently happening is directly the result of his lack of interest in his subjects.

The tutor is 100% correct, if your DS is getting a 2-3-4 currently in a subject, he should very much be looking at other subjects for A level. The leap from GCSE to A level is huge and you need something he is interested in and shows aptitude in really.

For example, my DS's lowest scores were in both of the English exams, and they were both 6's. We really dragged him up through those; his strengths are in maths etc and he smashed those, thankfully. But those two exams he had 6's in, he would definitely not be capable in at A level.

Did your DS obtain anything higher than 2/3 in mocks? Has the school had any meetings with you about this? Do you not think he should consider one of the other pathways, btechs or similar, which are a bit more practical? Do you think he can even pass English and Maths, the bare minimum he needs? If those mocks are indicative of his scores across the board, then you need to get focused on the fundamental subjects.

Your tutor sounds as if he is trying very hard to keep your expectations realistic. He can't physically cram knowledge into DS's head; DS needs to be doing his part and he doesn't sound as if he is. Your tutor is also not personally invested and is trying to speak to you directly. You really should be listening to what he's saying.

You hear "a lot" from teaching staff about the processes of teaching?

No, you really don't. I speak as a very experienced retired teacher and headteacher.

If he isn't on for a reasonable number of 6s you should look at BTECs post GCSE. Success with BTECs will get you further than failure at A levels.

Also, agree with what the above poster has said about the mind maps. You use mind maps as a tool to help you sort the information you have in your head. It is a tool, yes, but it requires a foundation of knowledge which the tutor is telling you that your DS does not have. Please listen to the tutor.

I think the OP is far removed from reality in more ways than one..................

How to write a PEA paragraph — SHSG English

I'd be getting him to take the quiz on this page and getting him an English tutor ASAP if he doesn't nail it.

He has zero chance of a good grade, even if he gets the content memorised, unless he can write a cogent and well formed PEA argument from given source evaluation.

Hearing a lot about teaching is nothing like actually teaching a child. You might hear about what teachers have to do and understand how the education system works but you don’t have any experience in teaching.

To be honest this just sounds like you want your son to do history, he doesn’t really but is just going along with it to please you. I’d guess he either doesn’t like the subject and is sabotaging any attempts (hence being on the third tutor) or he’s just plain lazy (no notes in class and he didn’t even know what topic they were on!) and doesn’t really care about doing well. It may be that he’s genuinely struggling but as someone’s who has spent 10 year providing learning support interventions to students struggling, I’d guess it was one of the former options. Most students who are genuinely struggling but want to do well in a subject are trying to make notes, do their own revision, your son isn’t doing that. So either he’s already given up or he was never bothered in the first place.

You need to speak to your son, get his actual feeling on if he wants to even do ALevels. He does cricket so presumably likes sport, what about doing sports science or coaching? He could get some weekend experience in volunteering with kids coaching to see if it’s something he interest in. There’s no point forcing something on him that he has no interest it. And you need to see all of his mock grades.

And then you need a meeting with his history teacher and teachers of any other subjects you’re concerned about to find out what’s actually going on. And actually listen to them, they told you in the first place he shouldn’t take history. You seem like you just make excuse after excuse for him. The teachers rubbish, they tutor let him down, he woke up late, bless him for not even knowing the topic they’re on?! And you clearly just wanted everyone here to tell you that the tutor was wrong and it’s not your son’s fault.

So you're not a teacher or a TA who works in the classrooms.

I wouldn't expect a receptionist at a GP surgery to be a medical expert. I wouldn't expert a receptionist at an accountancy office to be able to audit my accounts or a receptionist at an engineering firm to understand why a piece of machinery is broken.

I think that working in a school might have given you a false belief that you know more about education, revision and how to get decent grades than you actually do.

One of your early updates, when you said "He actually does really well in other subjects which is why I find this whole situation frustrating. In English he's predicted a 6, and he's quite creative when it comes to writing. He's good at Science when he's interested and he's okay at Maths." showed that you don't really understand what the numbers mean. Those comments don't indicate a student who is doing really well.

You're obviously a loving, caring mum but are completely deluded about your ds's ability and attitude and you need to listen to the professionals and to everyone making the same points over and over again on this thread.

2s and 3s in gcse mocks would suggest that A levels is not for your ds. And that's fine, not everyone is academic.

I wouldn't overthink the tutor being a uni student instead of a teacher. it just means he's more frank with you than a seasoned tutor who would have may be dressed it up with a lot more tact.

Genuinely, don't waste time on thinking of A level essay subjects, if he is at level 2 and 3 in Y11 mocks at GCSE level; and unless he's getting 6s and 7s in maths and science, these would be out too. In all honesty, if he isn't getting 7s in maths then A level maths and physics would be a completely soul destroying experience.

I know you said you were thinking of his future CV but Es and Us at A level will do him no favours.

Well with those results in his mocks he's not really GCSE material. His mother is doing him no favours. Have a local vocational college and apprenticeships lined up for him would be my advice.

In English he's predicted a 6, and he's quite creative when it comes to writing. He's good at Science when he's interested and he's okay at Maths.
I just don't see why history has to be treated like some impossible subject when surely if someone knows how to revise efficiently then it's a level playing field.

It's not impossible it's just not clearly playing to his strengths.

https://senecalearning.com/en-GB/
https://www.tassomai.com/home

May be worth a look if they have your DS history board.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize - for revison and subject content.

I'd make sure you have all the revision books for his board and if you can take up the extra tutoring time I'd clearly do that - if he works even now I think he'd up his grade considerably - but it's clearly more than a revision issue and if he doen't put the work in expect grades 2/3 - though some kids often boys can put in really last minute effort and do well History a subject that would be hard to do and he already not great with dates and seems easily confused with time periods.

I'd also look at other subjects is the effort needed here worth it - dropping subjects is not usually possible at GCSE but DC school did have a mechanism for doing so - if it's just this one subject dragging him down may be worth asking about. Otherwise one low subject will be less important - if he can be got up to a 4 great but it's clearly not his best subject.

This is what I'm starting to think too. The OP is having us on.