XL Bully again

[Ihatetomatoes]

Another poor child, a 9 month old baby, killed by an XL bully.

Should they be muzzled indoors around children and babies?

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/police-reveal-breed-dog-killed-32819908.amp?int_source=taboola&int_medium=display&int_campaign=organic

I think the fact that they are reportedly 'big softies' and affectionate, gentle animals 99% of the time is what's making them so lethal

Yes, this old quote gets wheeled out every single time an XL bully kills someone. Its become so common that I think anyone who hears this phrase should back away slowly from that person's dog because its very likely they'll be its next victim

How are you defining 'muscle dogs'? The statistics on fatal dogs attacks suggest that there is a real problem with XLs, they are massively overrepresented in statistics. However, the historical statistics suggest that it is very much about ownerships. There used to be far more staffy and staffy types in the numbers - although it's still a small amount. They barely figure now, and no more than other dogs like rottweilers. So either they all suddenly gave up the killing or it was about they way they were kept.

Again, XLs aside, (and sometimes even with them), if you read follow up reports on fatal dog attacks you will frequently see things like "they were kept outside all the time" "they were never allowed near people". These are not well-socialised, trained family dogs, regardless of breed.

They should all be rounded up and put down

A man was killed, a 5 to 10 minute walk from my house, by an XL Bully. He was walking his own dog in a residential area.
Some reports claim the owner ran out if his house because the victim threw a stone at his window. His 2 XL 's followed him, and the male chased the man and attacked.
Both XL' s had previously attacked dogs in the area.
The owner was jailed for 3 years.
The breed needs to be eradicated.

This is probably a repeat of yesterday's thread that got pulled, but I think we have to separate out XLs from other breeds and look more widely at legislation around all dogs. Licensing, compulsory training etc. We don't just hand people the keys to a car and let them get on with it. We require them to know what they're doing with a car, we ask them to make sure that car is roadworthy. The idea that we let just anyone have pretty much any dog of any size, is IMO mad.

Ah. I wondered when the puppy farm advocate would rear his head! I’m unsurprised how someone who supports animal abuse and cruelty - and knowingly so - could be so melodramatic about particular dog breeds. FTR not all bull breeds are the same, just like all spaniels aren’t the same.

But then a puppy farm supporter is never going to know that sort of difference. Are they?

Personally I’d rather a boxer (which I imagine would fall under ‘muscle dog’) than a puppy farm reared Australian labradoodle.

‘It could be any breed’ - I really don’t think a dachshund could kill a man, unless it bit in a few very specific places. And in order to get to those spots, the man would probably have to already be unconscious, otherwise would just kick the dog off. Even then would its teeth be long enough to bite deep enough? Probably not.

It's pretty inappropriate to talk of being "licked to death" under the circumstances.

It's also untrue regarding Labradors and smaller, because if you look at dog death stats you'll find a fair few terriers listed. And if you talk of all dogs bigger than a Lab being outlawed you're also penalising the Gentle Giant breeds that aren't known for aggression.

The problem is medium/large crossbreeds like Bullies, Pitbulls, crosses of Bandogs, American Bulldogs etc. That is where the problems lie. You can't legislate by size because the fact is that none of the breeds banned by the Dangerous Dogs act are gigantic, they are just bulky. And some of these dangerous dogs are no "bigger" than the average Labradoodle, just a lot stronger.

What a lovely person you are too. My dog came from a family home, I'll advocate for the breed not the breeders, that is the choice of the purchaser. I'd have my ALD over any other dog, he's wonderful. Well trained, beautifully behaved won't harm a fly and liked by several of my children's friends who are otherwise scared of dogs.

I think you'll probably find most bully dogs are puppy farmed and flogged on shitty sites like gumtree and pets4homes with zero checks.

Also well done for creating the biggest strawman known to man...

Actually, Boxers and other dogs that full under ‘bull’ tend not to be puppy farmed.

and that poster has repeatedly advocated and recommended puppy farmers to people. I have no time for any nonsense he sprouts. I’d get more sense from a chinchilla

I could say exactly the same about my gentle giant breed dog, yet you would have her outlawed because she happens to be considerably bigger than a Labrador.
What a lovely person you are.

You have repeatedly advocated and recommended puppy farmer breeders in the ‘Dog House.’ It’s a bit of a running joke from what I can see from other threads you’ve contributed to there.

Anyone who says their dog ‘wouldn’t harm a fly’ isn’t fit to have a dog because any dog can harm - the difference is that most of us with big breeds take precautions because we’re aware of the stigma our dogs face!

Sorry but those dogs shouldn’t be bred, they’re not dogs they’re fucking monsters.

I advocate for the breed, I don't advocate for individual breeders. There are some great breeders of every breed, there are some that aren't great, that is buyer beware.

When I say wouldn't harm a fly I'm not leaving any dog, including mine with a 9 month old, it's a metaphor. You probably learned about them in primary school.

Respectfully, "gentle parenting" (as known positive reinforcement in the dog world) absolutely works. Well trained dogs are not trained by force. And I'd place a high stake bet on the fact that those dogs that attacks kids/people are not trained with positive reinforcement, but rather with force. That + the fact that XL Bullies are poorly bred of course.

Now, positive reinforcement doesn't mean permissive, it's just means rewarding desirable behaviours, ignoring bad ones and, crucially, setting the environment to avoid those undesirable behaviours to happen in the first place, the nature of a dog being that they'll reproduce behaviours that they're rewarded for.

Not letting a dog alone with a kid is part of "setting the environment" and its just common sense really.

I absolutely agree.

There is always this strange assumption that the baby/child died because it was left unsupervised with the dog.

There could be any number of adults in a room when an XL bully decides to attack and I imagine it would still result in the infant/child being killed.

Being in the same room as one of these dogs isnt going to stop it killing a baby. It will probably kill you as well. Have you ever seen the footage of one of these XL bully attacks? I have and i can guarantee you nobody can stop one once it has gone into kill mode. About a year ago tbere was an attack and police shot it 6 times before it finally gave up its grip on the victim. They should all be rounded up and put down.

Exactly. People can say "it's how you raise them" but it's like knives - all knives are dangerous in the wrong hands but the difference between a carving knife and a butter knife if you accidentally slip, is huge.

I agree.

Still makes the parents totally negligent. Who visits a house with a dog when they have a small baby?

Two people now arrested and released on bail

I have a 10 month old little boy and cannot comprehend putting him in this situation, knowing the risk how can anyone take any risks with such a helpless little life that’s dependent on you keeping him safe.
My heart breaks just looking at my little one happily giggling away and knowing that little boy isn’t here playing with his toys like him anymore because his parents chose to gamble with his life.
No sympathy to the parents just anger at their parenting. His whole life gone, and they’ll probably not face prosecution.
Should be done for causing or allowing the death of a child same as they would be if a known to be dangerous partner was allowed to live there and killed him.

Dog breeds are so varied because we've bred them to do different jobs. It's absolutely nuts to fail to think about a breed's traditional role before you get one, because those instincts go deep.

I've had pointers and they point from being little puppies. Nobody shows them how or trains them to do this. Yes, some pointers are better suited to be actual working gundogs than others, but nobody should be surprised when their pointer points at prey animals. Nobody should be surprised when a herding breed exhibits herding behaviour. Nobody should be surprised when a guardian breed barks at strangers.

Blood sport breeds should not exist. There is no role for them in a society that has quite rightly condemned blood sports. They were created to fight, to bite and hold on with all their considerable strength. They are not appropriate for anyone to own because there is no legitimate reason for dogs with these instincts to be preserved.

Stand in the way of common sense? Surely, common sense would suggest not having a baby anywhere near a XL Bully dog! That's common sense.