To think therapy culture is turning self-reflection into self-obsession?

[MirrorFatigueJay]

It feels like we’ve gone from under-feeling to over-analysing everything. Not every discomfort is a trauma. AIBU to think constant introspection can actually make people unhappier?

No I did not say that( re CBT) and you actually said:-

“There’s quite a lot of research now indicating that mental health education in schools can increase distress and mental health difficulties in children. I think supporting children living in poverty and addressing parental mental health difficulties will have a much bigger impact.”

So “ mental health education” not CBT, what is harmful about mental health education?

Also some of the workshops being done will cover physical feelings, feelings, thoughts etc. What is harmful about that? You do realise professionals can adjust materials and focus according to audience?

The comment I was replying to originally (not to you, but if you’d have read the thread, you would understand the context, particularly given you replied “what mental health education? What research”) stated “I think if the basics of CBT were taught in school – that thoughts lead to feelings which lead to behaviours but that you can change/disrupt the process – then you'd have much more self awareness within a couple of generations.
I'm not talking about giving children therapy, but helping them to understand how and why people think the way they do; it should be popular subject!”

Mental health education is not the same as therapy, and I have already highlighted one paper which highlights how this can be harmful, citing several other papers which show this with their own primary data.

There is no workshops being done, afaik, that cover the basics of psychoed, for the reasons I’ve mentioned - the evidence is inconclusive. None of the links you provided suggest they will do anything other than increase availability of 1-1 therapy and work systemically with teachers and wider systems (in line with the three objectives of MHSTs).

As a psychologist, I do understand that professionals can adjust materials and focus for the audience (as I’ve done many times). What we don’t do is put on workshops or classes that have no evidence base, when we could be spending our time delivering evidence based individual or systemic interventions.

I think “themed group work or information workshops. We have also been supporting the transition between schools and have been working with the year 6 classes going up into year 7.” pretty much does suggest otherwise.

And again I see no evidence against mental health education.

I don’t think that suggests the workshop will cover cover physical feelings, feelings, thoughts etc at all. (You said; Also some of the workshops being done will cover physical feelings, feelings, thoughts etc.”. I still don’t see any evidence this workshop will cover any psychoed, as it seems to be an information workshop on moving to secondary school).

You say you see no evidence, but I have quoted a peer reviewed paper (which you mistakenly claimed was an opinion piece) which has cited several studies with primary data showing that mental health education in schools can cause potential harm, including worsening anxiety, low mood and difficulties with relationships. I can’t show any clearer evidence that mental health education in schools can be potentially harmful.

I don’t think we’re going to agree, which is fine. We’re coming at it from different perspectives, and I understand as a professional people might not see things the way I do. We can agree to disagree and get on with our Saturdays! I do think we agree on the core issue that more needs to be done to support children and MHSTs are a great start.

I’ve seen very good workshops covering this type of thing under this scheme so know it’s happening.

The one and only paper you keep quoting from does not say how and you still haven’t suggested an alternative.

I don’t know what you mean when you say “the one and only paper you keep quoting from does not say how”? The paper literally focuses on the mechanism of harm?

“One such explanation is that universal interventions increase young people's tendency to notice and focus on negative emotions and other symptoms, and that this attention and awareness can lead to negative effects in several ways [7,16, 17, 18]. First, increased awareness may lead to rumination, where young people passively and repeatedly think about their emotions either alone (rumination) or with a friend (co-rumination) [13,19,20]; this process has been shown to increase symptoms [21,22]. Second, it may be that universal interventions increase awareness of negative emotions but do not provide enough effective guidance on how to manage or reduce them, and this increased awareness in the absence of a resolution increases distress or other symptoms [18,23]. Some authors have proposed that this may be particularly likely to occur in young people already experiencing high levels of symptoms [18]”.

The numbers are references to study’s with primary data which explore this issue. If you’re genuinely interested, I would read the whole article.

i have a relative who has been having therapy for a couple of years, making good progress working through childhood bereavement. However, the reason he sought therapy was initially due to work burnout and anxiety. He is still in the same job, still anxious, the therapist says he just needs more therapy. I’m sure they know their job, but as a concerned relative, I think getting out of the toxic workplace and possibly some medical support for the anxiety would help alongside. It almost seems that his past trauma is blamed for everything.

And obviously you know better, do you?

Well no, but after two years he’s still miserable at work, stressed and paying the therapist every week…

A choice he is making, surely. Or his anxiety prevents him from thinking he can get another job? Or his field isn’t very mobile, so other jobs don’t come up very often? Or he’s planning to stay put and get promoted out of the team that’s making him unhappy? Unless you’re sitting in on his sessions, you can’t have any idea how he’s doing or what he’s working on. What do you mean by ‘medical help for his anxiety’? A prescription for beta blockers will just cover up the symptoms.

all this arguing is giving me a mental disorder

Yep I agree, therapy gave my selfish ex validation for his behaviour and an excuse to opt out of family life. For example when I did the dropping off and picking up from the kid’s activities 3 evenings a week and he did the 4th, he stopped doing this after therapy. Apparently the therapist told him he needed more time for himself! We both worked full time but his office was within walking distance from the house, I travelled and worked longer hours. I also did all of the housework etc while he lazed around the house. Surely
the therapist should have been telling him that he was being a selfish twat rather than validating this and encouraging him to do even less? His DC don’t bother with him now as he was a shit father. I’m sure he’ll be in therapy again and it will all be their fault! 🙄

People often take a message from therapy that the therapist didn’t intend. I’ve lost count of the people who start a session saying “I did what you suggested” or words to that effect. And they have got the impression I was recommending a particular course of action. I’m more careful about that. But people hear what they want to hear.