Anyone like to reconsider what they posted about the train attack on Saturday night?

[margegunderson]

There were (to my mind) some horrific posts claiming that it MUST be a terrorist attack, demanding information on the attacker’s race and motivations NOW, shouting about Starmer censorship and picking fights with anyone suggesting it might not be cut and dried and to wait for more information. Hideously racist as well.
If that was you - any reflections today? What will you do if there’s a next time?

I’m sure your donation will top up Samir’s fund.

Mine will

To be fair, I really don't think a Scunthorpe footballer earns very much at all - especially as he isn't a regular first team player. He may well earn the same as a train guard, maybe less.

I am also not keen on victim Olympics.
But, on a side note, he's of Albanian heritage.

Pitting races against each other, as some have done, to try to suggest all aggressors are from ethnic minorities (when disappointingly not brown and Muslim then black and Jamaican will do as probably a Yardie) and all victims as white British is never wise .

I’d imagine that it’s Scunthorpe United fans mainly donating to that one, as well as fans of the other team he plays for.

Samir will no doubt be paid in full by the train company while he is off sick the Scunthorpe player won’t be paid by the team while he’s not playing. They’re semi-pro at that level.

I assume that instead of writing disgusting comments on social media you’re also donating to the fundraiser for Samir?

Scunthorpe United are a national league team. He’d be lucky to even make minimum wage.

Just checked and Jonathon Gjoshe is paid exactly £0 a week to play for Scunthorpe.

perhaps @AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta and @Sylvie56 would like to apologise for disparaging him?

https://salarysport.com/football/national-league/scunthorpe-united/

Agree with this. There have been so many fake posts about autism (particularly children) that have just been plain nasty. And yes, why should they be relying on posters to complain? We had one fake on last night about a colleague getting a mobility car for her autistic child who could do all of these things other NT children could. Of course it was bullshit and a blatant attempt to spread misinformation because to qualify for one you need to be virtually unable to walk or have a severe mental impairment which means you you someone with you at all times. I think if several of us didn't call it our for bullshit it would have stayed up.

The racist and the scared ignorant posting shows how deeply entrenched the scaremongering and division has got. We’re being conned as a society to mistrust and hate each other.

Obviously we don’t know the full picture yet in this one case. But it looks like it could be a case of mental health and neglect. I’m going to assume for now the perpetrator had extreme mental illness and was not being cared for . When that happens we never see a big outcry and more NHS money to securely help people who are at risk of violent psychosis and can’t manage their own medication or whatever the risky scenario might be.

What has happened before is that an individual social worker or hospital might be named as at fault. A report might be written. But there isn’t ever a major change to what goes on really. That leaves people who might become future perpetrators and future victims very vulnerable.

The fact that this guy might have been responsible for multiple stabbing over a few days without being stopped.. was he really not on anyone’s list to check up on? That seems unlikely and we known how stretched services have become since 2010 ausyeruty which we’ve never recovered from. I might be wrong of course in this one case, we don’t know the full picture. But it’s extremely worrying in general.

I’d like to take this opportunity to reiterate my gratitude to those who behaved so bravely on the night and for the police for catching the bloke with the knife so quickly

There are very likely to also be paid shills spreading extremist right wing lies and shit stirring on the site at the moment. Same as with the run up to Brexit on here. I don’t know how MN deals with this, but with elections known to be interfered with, the ways it’s frequently denied by other posters that this is happened and/or assumed that the Left of politics must be doing it too, is ludicrous.

I work in mental health services and the one demographic I feel we fail are black men. If you look at the stats, black men are more likely to be detained, more likely to be put on community treatment orders, more likely to be flagged as high risk. An example; two people with delusions, one was a 19 year old black man with no prior violent behaviour who shouted ‘I’m gunna shank (kill) you’ at his mum on the phone in a moment of rage. One white woman who was working in a nursery at the time who disclosed lots of violent fantasy’s and command hallucinations, can you guess who was flagged as high risk? The black man. Obviously it was raised that the woman was far more high risk!

Unconscious bias is everywhere.
Not to mention that we have no black male staff working in our community mental health team. There’s only been one male black member of staff recruited as long as I’ve worked here.

Being black in Britain is stressful. I fully believe in the stress model for mental illness/ psychosis as well as genetics and trauma. Yet our services are elitist and you have to want to engage. It’s only after Southport that mental health teams have been told we need to be more curious before discharging people for non engagement.
We expect people to open up and tell us everything in rushed 20 minute appointments in a central base, near impossible to get to without a car. Then if you’re late we don’t see you.
The whole system is designed for middle class people who talk freely and want to engage.
What we need is more community led hubs with peers and culturally appropriate professionals, at least 50% who are male. All the research shows that mental health service users want to receive care from people they can relate to.
Why would a young black male open up to me, a middle class white woman with two kids? Especially in a 20 minute appointment, oh and then he’ll be passed to someone different next time and then again in two months…
Its just not working

This absolutely is happening. Look at the recent spate of faux-innocent ‘I’d like to move back to the UK/London but I’ve heard it’s terribly dangerous, is that true?’ threads. There is a concerted attempt underway to undermine our democracy and foment ethnic tensions.

Thank you very much for the work that you do and for posting Lostthebubblewand

I was also pondering if weed/skunk (whatever it’s called now) is more prevalent in this demographic? I used to listen to a lot of psychologist and psychiatrist led talks that discussed the rising problem with mental health disorders and the much stronger weed resins available. I’m not saying they are the cause but are they contributing?

Also I’ve seen ASD being mentioned as a condition in a few of these extreme violence cases now and I wondered if certain individuals with low empathy and niche interests (such as knives, weapons, gore and horror) could flag early if people could get more involved with the profiling side.

Black men are disproportionately arrested and charged with drugs offences. Drug use is just as prevalent in white male populations.

I guess that’s the problem with someone pondering something and it being rejected as an idea and organisations keeping excellent and accurate data and being able to come up with explanations aside from ‘oh dear’ and ‘lessons will be learned’.

@WeCouldBeNiceToEachOther I know nothing about football and whilst I never thought all footballers were millionaires I did assume they got a good minimum wage so I apologise for making an assumption.

ETA, I wasn't being disparaging to him personally but the footballing culture. I'd say the same thing if it has been David Beckham on the train.

As you should.

That’s a 22 year old man who was attacked and people who support his football team are helping him out. Imagine being angry at tha.

I'm not angry about it FFS.
I know nothing about football or footballers, including this poor man. I made an assumption, I was wrong, I've owned it and apologised (something that precious few of the people this thread this about have done. So perhaps you'd like to go after them instead). I don't know what more you want from me.

Sorry alpaca. I did not mean to cause a pile on of the self righteous. I was just sticking up for lower league footballers. I totally got the point you were making. . That's why I pointed out that an Albanian is , suddenly and ironically, being used for point scoring.

I hate to say this. Black men who use drugs carry out more knife attacks, random and in familiar situations.
Knife crime in Ireland has increased by 600% in some hospital a&e's.

There was rarely stabbings when I was a teenager/young adult.
It's weekly now.

BTW I know many superb young black men, who are living life peacefully and many young white guys who are criminals. (WC area).

Drugs impact different people different ways depending on generational trauma, Northern Ireland is evidence based on their murder rates, high domestic murders are common, depression, suicide, generational trauma.

Are you trying to suggest that that first part is true of NI ? I am a bit confused .

And, anyway, I don't see what that has to do with my statistic which was about drugs, not knife crime. Knife crime is poverty linked (see, for example, Glasgow, for models of white, poverty linked crime).

Thank you piggy ❤️.
As I said I am clueless about football (can tell you everything you've never wanted to know about my DPs rugby team though!) and it's players. But it goes without saying that I hope this man has a full and fast recovery, along with his fellow passengers and the train guard.

If the parents reached out, most parents hide the horror and hope for the best rather than let authorities know that your DC is ill. Even the parents who reach out find there's no support.
The Southport murders definitely could have been avoided.
I know a lot of chilled people who use weed, it's like alcohol, if you're depressed or have mh issue's alcohol will distress you, if you're happy and have a smoke to chill, it won't make you stab anyone.

Does a study actually exist that has looked at links between drug offences, knife crime and ethnicity - out of interest? Otherwise , we have to be careful stating that Black men who use drugs are more likely to commit violent (specifically knife) crimes.

Are white, relatively wealthy men who use cocaine more likely to be football hooligans , or commit acts of DV?