Anyone like to reconsider what they posted about the train attack on Saturday night?

[margegunderson]

There were (to my mind) some horrific posts claiming that it MUST be a terrorist attack, demanding information on the attacker’s race and motivations NOW, shouting about Starmer censorship and picking fights with anyone suggesting it might not be cut and dried and to wait for more information. Hideously racist as well.
If that was you - any reflections today? What will you do if there’s a next time?

If the reports had been "a 6ft ginger man" and there had been 2 men matching that description would you have rather they quickly apprehended both and worked out who was responsible after, or that they let one leave and then have to hope they can trace him down after when they realise he was the perpetrator?
The man who was tasered was shouting "kill me" repeatedly, so presumably he was the perpetrator. The other man arrested wasn't tasered.

You seem to be thinking in very binary terms.

This man is a hero.

That doesn't mean that people were racist for assuming from the news coming out on Saturday that this could be a terrorist attack.

Some people may well have a racist agenda but many people on those threads on Saturday were not being racist, just making an assumption that a random attack on a transport system, seemingly by two people (that later turned out to be wrong), was a terrorist attack.

Based on the fact that many terrorist attacks have occurred on transport systems or to pedestrians going about their business, that assumption is neither unreasonable or racist.

The racists are likely to be very annoyed that the hero rail worker who was left fighting for his life after trying to protect passengers has a very Muslim sounding name.
https://news.sky.com/story/train-company-lner-extremely-proud-of-rail-worker-in-critical-condition-after-mass-stabbing-as-family-call-him-hero-13463705

To assume that the feared terrorist attack was therefore likely to have been carried out by a Muslim, would be racist.

It could just as likely have been carried out by a far right perpetrator, likely a non-Muslim.

Now that made me laugh out loud. How frustrating that must be for them!

mbosnz
"It could just as likely have been carried out by a far right perpetrator, likely a non-Muslim"

It could have been - but it wasn't.

But why?

When I was a child growing up if there was a terrorist attack it was assumed to be the IRA.

Most terrorist attacks on UK soil since 2000 have been carried out by Islamic extremists.

Recognising that is not the same as thinking that all Muslims are terrorists or that white people or non muslim people are not capable of carrying out evil acts or that Muslims can't be good/ heros.

It’s not about who actually did it, or that they could have been any race or religion. The problem with the threads on the night was that people were jumping to the conclusion that the perpetrators had to be ‘boat people’ and saying that we need to crack down on small boat crossings etc. This was based on nothing but the first scraps of information.

Posters assuming that it was a terrorist attack before any facts were confirmed does not justify the hate filled posts on MN over the weekend.

People do tend to assume “terror attack” because of past events. But that pattern of assumption is exactly part of the problem, as it shows how easily we’ve normalised linking violence to certain groups before facts are known. Recognising that bias and challenging it is reasonable.

The posts over the weekend were so depressing and so disturbing in showing how people think that I couldn’t read the full threads. And I will challenge them.

And I do find it funny that racists and those who hate Muslims have conveniently gone quiet and the threads on Huntington died down once more information was shared, showing that they had no real concern about the victims but rather tried to manipulate an event to further their narrative. They must be fuming that the train worker is not a white “native” Englishman but actually a Muslim and potentially one not even born here.

I was posting on some parts of those threads on Saturday and yes some of the posters were being racist in their assumptions.

But others were not racist but yet were accused of it.

At least one poster on here thinks it is racist to connect terrorism with the muslim faith at all. This is spite of the fact that the majority of terrorism on UK soil since 2000 was carried out by Islamist extremists.

One of the students on my course at university was killed on 7/7 my mind will automatically assume that it is terrorism when 2 people are reported to have been involved in attacks on public transport. I don't think that that either amounts to unreasonable bias or racism.

The problem on these threads is that if you call everyone racist even for reasonable thought processes, (and to be clear I am not accusing you of this directly), then you dilute the meaning of the term.

And already the mental gymnastics have been started by those whose brains have been scrambled by this news. 😂

Yes. These girls and their families have literally been to hell and back and are still being failed by those supposed to protect them. They have been silenced by people calling them racist for literally reporting what happened to them and PP is worried that describing these female children as little girls is unnecessarily inflammatory!

This mind blowing claim has been bothering me all morning. What has happened to the humanity of people?

I request that anyone with an opinion on the ‘inflammatory’ nature of calling a female child age 10+ a little girl should read some of the survivor accounts from these girls and then come back to us and consider how they have contributed to the atmosphere that allowed those crimes to happen.

What on earth ‘nuance’ would make supporting 9/11, the worst terrorist track the world has ever seen acceptable to you? 9/11 was an attack on the West which includes the UK.

67 British citizens were killed in 9/11. Your mental gymnastics to try and justify people who clearly hate the West and our culture is impressive.

This amused me. Muslim sounding name.

You are using a mass stereotype of the sort that would gather screams of racism if used in any other way. This is looking like a one way street.

I once saw MN described as the para military wing of the Daily Mail, it certainly lives up to that on some of the threads about news items. I go on the Mail website at times to see how the wind is blowing over there and because I don't like staying in my own bubble but my god, some of the sutff on there is horrific. They are currently in a lather about someone on Loose Women choosing not to wear a poppy, they are all but calling for her her to be publicly executed. Strange when they also get so wound up about free speech

Was it you (if not, apologies) who , the other day opined that the stabber would not be called Dave??

Terrorism means there is an ideological aim, committing violence to further a political goal or influence people's behaviours to that end. A mass stabbing spree isn't terrorism unless the person comes out and states they did it to try influence the government or intimidate the public to further a political, religious or ideological cause.

Mass violence with no ideological 'reason' is just that, violence.

There was a lot of confusion and uncertainty around Rudakabana on this issue, with people wondering why he hadn't been referred to PREVENT. Because he hadn't disclosed an ideological cause to anyone regarding the horrors he carried out.

You have a very twisted view. That is an awful thing to say.

You’re either projecting massively (from observations on these threads some of the self proclaimed ‘anti racist’ are extremely racist when it suits them) or are desperate to fuel tension and division with your inflammatory remarks.

Do you know what would make me happiest - if there were no Islamic terrorists, no Pakistani Muslim grooming gangs, no terrorists, rapists and murderers entering our country illegally (remember I am not saying all Muslims or boat people). We’ve got plenty of our own shit to deal with.

I am really pleased we are hosting the female Afghani lawyers and their families that JK Rowling secretly funded. I was pleased to donate to Baroness Nicholson’s fund for the Yazidi girls still held as sex slaves and their population subjected to genocide. We need to help the people that need it. We will not be in a position to do that for much longer if we can’t secure our borders.

Moderate, Britain loving Muslims are trying to raise the alarm on this. They don’t want the extremists to come here and be welcomed by ‘well meaning’ but utterly ill informed people. Posters on here have described what happened in their country and how they came here to get away from what is now being done.

They get ignored on threads like this though - must be the wrong type of Muslim voices.

No I didn’t.

I get called racist for sharing links to the Mayor of London website and stats on terrorist attacks, I’m not going to get into speculating on names.

I agree with you, I have read some accounts of the survivors.
And yet still people on here are trying to dismiss them.

This mind blowing claim has been bothering me all morning. What has happened to the humanity of people?

It is mind blowing indeed those girls in Rotherham and other areas were totally dehumanised by the very people who should have been protecting them.

And now it is more important to protect the perpetrators' identity seemingly , than acknowledge that these were white children and they were victims.

And the virtue signallers think it is racist to even talk about it giving the men involved victim status rather than the actual victims.

Disgusting.

Oh where has that been posted then.
Personally I think there are 3 people who deserve the George Cross for their brave actions that night.This man, the football supporter who stepped forward to stop the children being stabbed and the quick thinking train driver.

Oh well, someone published a whole list of names of previous , specifically mass stabbing, incidents and invited us to draw comparison through names, inviting the interpretation that even as the man was black he'd almost certainly have a name identifying him as Muslim.

How disappointed they must be.

That’s the general gist I am getting, that certain “anti racist” posters are extremely racists when it suits them or are desperate to fuel tension or divide with their inflammatory remarks.

So because I’m not actually assuming he is a Muslim himself just because his name sounds his heritage would be, that would gather screams of racism.

No, you’ve lost me. Your point makes no sense and you’re clearly looking to argue something by looking at posts through very narrow lens.