Parents hoarding money

[Antisocialg1t]

Speaking to my Dad today and he boasted he saves £2,000 / month and has well in excess of £250,000 sitting in the bank. He was lamenting not having enough places to put his money without paying tax. He also stated that in retirement he's never had it so good compared to his working life.

I can't help but feel resentment. I think this stems from the almost daily grind of raising two children (15 and 13), always wanting the best for them, and sacrificing constantly. I'm hugely motivated by the fact I strongly believe that adult life is going to be harder for them than it was for me and hugely more difficult than it was for my parent's generation. I just can't reconcile feeling how I do about my children, and knowing that my dad thinks very differently about me and my family. It has brought to mind how little he's ever done for my children / his grandchildren, despite being retired for their entire lives. It's also brought into sharp focus how much of his time he's used to save and hoard money, rather than give more of himself.

But I feel huge guilt because this has come up because of a conversation about money.

Anyone else in a similar position?

But mine is a four person household where adults work collectively 75 hours / week + parenting, whereas parents live in a 2 person household and none of the same time pressures
Just on this statement. Surely that's totally normal? I'm a lot richer now in my mid 50s than I was 20 years ago because my outgoings have gone down significantly.

That's the whole point of working FT, looking for promotions and paying the mortgage of.

And yes, there is a sense of pride when you get there, but of security before anything else. Because the opportunities to increase your income at a later ages are gone. No-one will employ you at that level and even if one would give you a chance, you're more tired, slower, less resilient each additional year.

You know that what you've got is...what you've got and oh yes do you feel very protective of it and mindful of the what ifs scenarios!

Not sure I agree that older people had it easier in terms of standard of living. My parents didn’t have central heating for a long time (open fires were the default) and even when they did get it, the oil crisis and its impact on the psyche afterwards dictated that it was heavily rationed. As kids we just wore more layers. They didn’t have washing machines, dishwashers, telephone, cable tv, tumble driers, the list is endless, and they raised 4 kids and both worked. The (misogynistic)comments above about women of a certain age that never worked seem to disregard the lack of domestic technology back then. I don’t envy those who were housewives, and many were shut out of the workforce anyway. We definitely work longer hours today, and commute times are long, but our parents also lacked much of the protection that employment laws provide today, including min wage, sick pay, maternity pay, unemployment benefits etc. I have young kids today and it is not easy, but I do not resent my parents enjoying an easy retirement - they worked all their lives just as we are doing now. I was brought up to make my own way in life, and I do not want nor do I feel entitled to handouts from my parents. In fact I would find it embarrassing. So we are mindful of what we spend and we do some things differently, e.g. a tiny wedding for 12 people, always a second (or third, fourth..) hand car, scrimping and saving and not frittering money away but isn’t all that just normal life!?! I don’t want my parents money, it is not mine just because they happen to have raised me.

I am not looking to dissect your personal circumstances. I was responding to the 'economic facts' you talked about. Anyone can have an accident or become sick and their circumstances will change completely. I think you will understand though that this is not the gist of this thread.

He’s selfish.

Tell him to call the Samaritans next time he’s looking for a sympathetic ear to humble brag about his wealth.

The grind you describe is real and exhausting.

You have my sympathies. Keep on keeping on 💐 .

Charming!

You give your money away. No? Are you selfish?

Yes I agree with assisted dying. We have both expressed our wishes to each other and our sons.
we do not wish to be in care homes with years of care and many of our friends feel the same.

@PinkEyeo
I understand what you mean, but I think that it’s important to remember that these are some of the downsides to individualistic societies, and are an unintended consequence rather than an intention.

I think that the promoted separation of adult children from their birth families( usually through further education and job opportunities) in a way that is rarely seen in most of the rest of the world has positives for society, innovation, forward thinking, etc but it does mean that families are rarely as connected as in societies where this happens less.

In part of my culture it would be nigh on impossible to find situations where there was such a discrepancy between wealth of parents and wealth of adult children.
If your family of origin has available money then it will be made available to provide a decent standard of living to adult children.
It would be an absolute embarrassment to not do this. It would be seen as shameful. However this may come with restrictions which some may decide are not worth the while.

The fact that even though in the UK it is seen as almost a dirty secret to have been given money for a house deposit, the reality is that a large part of adult children are helped. However it is still seen as “worthier” to have not been given a “handout”.
Adult children who live in the family home are asked for a financial contribution for rent, even when there is no objective financial need is another example.
It is the fact that these “ideals” are seen as preferable, mean that it really doesn’t cross the minds of some parents what economic difficulties their adult children may be in. They are a separate entity.
It doesn’t reflect badly on them in any way to see their children and grandchildren go without.

That said, there is a contradiction at play in the UK. Spending is promoted on all levels both by the state and by individuals. The state will pay out in terms of widespread benefits and for elderly people without savings. Yet it is seen as “wrong” to deliberately deprive yourself of assets to benefit from state help, unless you do it in strategic, long term manner.

In closer knit cultures, like where I live now, the social safety net is family based. It is much more likely that elderly parents are looked after in the home, but even if they do go into care homes, once the elderly person’s individual funds are deplenished, the state will expect the relatives of said person to cough up. So before the state will pay for care, adult children and siblings will be legally required to pay.
You don’t get to choose to not care for a relative and pass that responsibility to the state for free. Only those without any relatives, and without funds would the state fund.

@pondscaters These so called 'closer knit cultures' often also come with an expectation for children to marry into a certain circle, pick a very specific profession and think a certain type of way and toe the line always. It looks great from the outside, where 'what is mine is your's' seems to count and everyone is being looked after. But often these families are just enmeshed and you risk being an outcast if you adopt different views or a different lifestyle.

Personally, I think that these families are often emotionally extremely unhealthy and stunted. It's a fairytale to think that in some cultures all assets are shared, whilst everyone can live whatever life the want.

Yes, to my children.

OP is financially struggling. As a parent to see that and not WANT to help is beyond selfish and upsetting.

He knows what to do with his own money….save it!

I don’t think it’s any good arguing about this like rats in a sack - acquiring a home and savings and good ( paid for) pensions was clearly easier in days gone by once you got to a certain age ( for many but not all) some protections though are better now ( I was back at work full time with a 13 week old to keep my much needed job) — and thus was1998 before rules changed around maternity . From the opposite angle though it was much easier to get care homes paid for etc as far more people had next to bugger all, lots more social renters etc - neither of my great grandmothers paid for care homes- so elderly people now even with modest assets do have this in the back of their mind - same with family helping because more family often lived on the doorstep- that option is no longer there for many , the daughter or son isn’t popping round twice a day because they are both working full time or living 300 miles away etc so carers need to be paid for , it’s a different world for many with different conflicts related to money and time- yes there are some elderly people who could help out financially a little more and don’t - but equally there are plenty of adult children and grandchildren who don’t put much effort into elderly parents too. I think life can be tough at both ends of the spectrum and often it’s too late for elderly parents to realise it might make sense to share a bit moreout now if they can because they are often at the point it can be seen as deprivation of assets - we are in our early 60s and if I was able to help out my son more now I would, as it is i help with the odd few hundred maybe every other month for bits and bobs often related to his car etc and he is very greatful for that, as he gets by just about ok, but it’s fairly tight

Another mumsnet post of things that never happened!

Would he listen to the idea that he can gift £3k each per year to his grandkids to be invested into a nice tax exemption product?

One persons ‘financially struggling’ is different to someone else’s!

well next time he moans, tell him your ISA allowance is fully unused, should he wish to gift you £20k.
or ask him if he wants to put it in a JISA or whatever for the kids.

And many families feel that others owe them the lifestyle they think they deserve!

As a wife and mother in the 50s my Mum also worked as a school dinners cook. She also took in ironing. During the holidays she cleaned other people's houses and went fruit and potato picking. Yeah, she had it really easy.

How is OP struggling financially? They didn't say. The only description was 'daily grind' and 'making sacrifices' and the grandparent being extremely frugal and having some money in the bank. Plus an expectation that each future generation has it better than the one before.

And she probably wasn't allowed to pick up certain type of jobs, get divorced or have her own bank account.

I think there is a lack of understanding from a lot of posters.

1. £250k is a pittence in terms of pension provision. If you took 4% (a potentially risky amount depending upon age) it would only be £10k a year. Even with the State Pension, that would only be £22k a year. That would cover bills, Council Tax and food, but not a lot more. A comfortable retirement would probably require £2 million and a lower annual percentage to reduce risk - e.g. 2% of £2 million would be £40k per annum.

2. All this talk of 'hoarding' is ridiculous. The sums that you should be trying to save are terrifying. If your parents have managed to get across the finish line, good luck to them. Who are you to say how much of their money is 'too much'? How much are you saving for your retirement?

3. Lots of older people have the attitude that helping adult children is 'killing with kindness'. You might disagree with the sentiment, but my father has a friend who is constantly bailing out his adult son, despite him being in his forties. He's never needed to knuckle down and succeed in a career. He just phones his dad for money. What's he going to do when his dad's generous final salary pension isn't there?

Since I left university I've not asked my dad for a penny. We paid for our own wedding and saved up our own house deposit. We purchased in 2017, so it's not like we bought it during the 1990's slump. We worked, saved, invested and bought a run down shit hole.

Take responsibility for your own lives. If you want more money, study for some professional qualifications and get a better job.

But I bet she's not sitting on a huge pile of cash either.

I don't see where they are "struggling."

People need to cut their cloth. The lifestyle expectations of todays's 20-40 somethings is off the charts. And the tiresome "they had it so much easier" is ignoring the standard-of-living creep that has happened over the past 50 years.

Every woman in my extended family going back 100 years has worked out of the home their entire adult lives, one grandmother despite having six children. The latter raised them in a two-bedroom house, moving to a three-bedroom when the older girls left school and got jobs to contribute.

My mother was one of the six kids, in the 1950s/early 60s she lied about her age at 14 to get a waitress job in a cafe, and left school at 17 and worked as a secretary then did cleaning and such at night and on weekends to help raise her younger siblings. I don't think she had it easy. My dad did a stint in the RN and then from 20-32 worked a factory job for Ford and drove a lorry at night to earn extra $$. Both my parents lived at their parents' homes until they married, and then saved for several years before TTC so they could afford mum to take time off when I was born. They never got any sort of dole or handout. Their house until I was 12 was a 2BR, 1-bath 900 sq ft. With secondhand furniture. When they upgraded around 1980 the mortgage interest rates were double-digit.

How is that "having it easy" ? They earned everything they ever accumulated via hard work. And I might add that the daily standard of living was nothing like today's. One phone, one TV (black and white for the most part), no other tech, one shared old car (I think the longest my dad ran the same car was 24 years), no pets, no brand-new furniture, no dishwasher, tumble dryer later in life, no aircon, they didn't travel overseas till upward of age 50. As kids and teens we didn't have expensive extracurriculars; my only after-school activity from 15 onward was either babysitting or working in an office for pocket money.

Now young people expect travel, contact lenses, meat at any meal they fancy, attractively decorated and spacious houses, state-of-the-art white goods and appliances, lots of "activities" and "days out" with their kids, the list goes on.

Go back and live like people did in the 1950s, 60s and 70s for a year- it's quite possible if one has self-discipline - and then get back to us about how "easy" it was.

I understand that side of things too. That’s why I said that there are restrictions to this sort of society and those who think the price to pay isn’t worth it.
Mine was a more theoretical observation saying that every modal has its pros and cons, not that one is better than the other.
One of the downsides of places where families are less connected is that it is more likely to create situations where families don’t feel the need to put themselves out for other members because society tells them that as adults we are completely for ourselves as individuals.

@ThisOldThang Would a £2mn investment not never run out? Realistically, the stock market performs better than 2pc or even 4pc. So even if you withdraw 4pc your pot is still being invested and growing by more than 4pc on average.