To be hurt and angry that DD told her prof her mum is a TERF and he sympathised

[Dahliadaily]

My DD is at a Russell group uni studying a masters following a 1st in humanities. I’m really proud of her obviously.
We were always really close. She cried for me throughout freshers’ week, relied on my tough love.

We differ respectfully on the trans issue. I am a feminist and a biology grad and believe in the reality of sex and the importance of single sex spaces, the rule of law.

We negotiate this ok and do keep talking. I’m sure that more unites us than separates us. We agree on prostitution for example. But not on the medicalisation of gender.

She is a lesbian. Has lots of gay non binary and trans friends. Her flatmate is a trans man. I’d never make a personal remark about any of them.

My other DD told me that uni DD has got close to a prof (male and gay - nothing sleazy) and told him I was a TERF. He responded “that must be really difficult for you”.

She’s an intelligent young woman, capable of forming her own views. But I can’t help being hurt by her comment and angry with the prof for siding with this idea that I’m difficult or even evil / unkind. It feels a bit like grooming.

The bit about ‘biological reality’ and women only spaces

Nope. There no science that says humans can change sex. There’s also been no point in history where people with gender issues have tried to force others to accept them as the opposite sex.

We're not debating whether they exist.
We're debating whether your metaphysical beliefs about gender identity should become the basis of law and public policy, thereby erasing the political recognition of sex, and the existence of female people as a specific class in law.

my safety dignity and privacy should not and will not be sacrificed for someone else’s mental health issues.

How on earth is one's professor a "random dude"?--she didn't pick a stranger at random with whom to discuss the topic! He's presumably her teacher and mentor.

We do 😒

Doh!

Where to start with this?
If sex and gender are separate, on what basis does changing one’s gender change one’s sex?

It is perfectly possible to believe in everyone’s equality, without being forced to share their actual views. Gender ideology is different from other belief systems in that it not only requires adherents to believe the creed that Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men and Non Binary genders are valid it is also dependent on compelling everyone to believe/ convincingly pretend to believe in it too. People of faith are not erased by someone else’s atheism and vice versa.

And lastly there are limits on expressing our lives as we see fit. Sorry that boundaries are such a problem for you.

Really? You think feminists should obsess over what their daughters think to the point about being deeply unhappy? My DD leaves me to my TERF views. We don't discuss it overly. She hated the unisex loo in her office so she sees my point.
I am my own person. Not just a mum who needs to think the same as my daughter.

Why are you conflating “intersex” and trans?

the gender identity clinics stopped testing for DSDs as it was very clear that every single person claiming a trans identity was unambiguously male or female.

But 'that must be difficult for you' is a common way to respond to anyone expressing a problem they have. It's sympathetic but doesn't imply agreement with the other person's point of view. It could easily be expressed by someone who disagreed with the view but wanted to respond kindly.

OP, you do have differing views from your dd so you haven't learnt anything new. She has the right to speak to whomever she wants though it's unfortunate her sister told you, what was her motivation?

How many so called trans women have these chromosomal anomalies?

So we have to give up our safety for theirs should we. I think not. I care more about the safety of women and girls than I do about the safety of men in dresses basically. They should have their own safe spaces not ours.

The neurological studies found that brain scans of transwomen were closer to gay males that those of females. Once sexuality was controlled for there was found to be no difference between transwomen and other males.

None.

DH works in academia, he would absolutely mutter a platitude like must be difficult. As it is he is a total terf but just like his politics and the colour of his underpants, it's not something that's related to his specialism, astro physics. He absolutely does not bring his whole self to work.
He has supervised a trans woman doing a dissertation, his problem was with the poorly structured arguments, lack of citations and the paucity of original research. No marks were added or deducted for dress, politics or toilets.

This is quite an over reaction.

I agree with you. I’m not sure where you got from that post that I think otherwise.

What I have often noticed on MN is middle aged women are supposed to 'support' whatever their kids say or do, but the courtesy doesn't extend the other way. Oh no. Freedom of thought is only for the young.

but he doesn't know you, only her. For all he knows you might relish the battle.
Basically she has said something true. he has rersponded with something that might or might not be true but is a fair comment. Your other daughter shouldn't have stirred the pot and you should have told her that.

That's an outrageous statement.

I was about to post and use a parallel with racism - imagine if you were a racist and your daughter had black friends, that would be much harder for her than you - but I actually don't think it's fair in any way to like your views to racism....

But to liken those who disagree with you on gender issues to racists - including your daughter - is disgusting and offensive on many levels.

(And please note I am not even revealing my own views on gender here, as they are complex and not remotely gernane to the thread).

Your daughter has every right to discuss the discomfort and distress your views cause her with a trusted adult and role model. (Just as you seem to feel free to discuss her views, and the distress they cause you, with a bunch of strangers on the internet). You should feel pleased as her mother that she has found in her tutor someone she can talk to freely and gain support from - that isn't the case for lots of university students.

I actually think this issue is less to do with gender, and more to do with you needing more emotional distance from your daughter, who is now a young adult. Her "crying for you during Fresher's week" isn't a normal, age-appropriate thing (I get that it happens, but it should be cause for concern) and you need to do what you can to encourage her to find her independence. It shouldn't be an issue of "tough love" at that stage. We need to aim for our children to feel excited and confident to launch themselves into each new stage of their growing independence - yes, we must always be there in the background to catch them if they fall - but I'd be deeply worried if my daughter spent a week crying for me, aged 18.

And you accepting the fact that she has different views than you, and may talk about you to people in a critical way, is part of that healthy separation.

She is not you. And she probably doesn't even like everything about you. Doesn't mean she won't always love you and need you on some levels. But it's totally healthy and age-appropriate for her to start needing others too.

Cross-dressing is certainly present throughout history, but largely by people who were same-sex attracted (or occasionally by women trying to escape social restrictions, though likely more in fiction than in reality).

The concept (and terms) of “trans” people, though, dates only from around the early twentieth century (transsexual from around 1920 onwards, transgender from the second half of the twentieth century). Before then there is very little evidence at all, historically, for the idea of “trans” people (as opposed to gay people, especially men, who were seen as “feminised”). Pretty much all of the evidence of historical “trans” individuals is that they were gay men who certainly didn’t actually think of themselves as literal women. (Understandably, since women really were second class citizens compared to men.) Similarly, in other cultures, Hijra and other gay male prostitutes did not historically think of themselves as literal women.

Ideas like “two-spirit” are generally contemporary inventions since the 1990s - part of a retrospective invention of “trans history” that isn’t actually substantiated in any documented way.

It’s actually very interesting that the rise of the idea of “transsexual/transgender” only really happens at a moment when women acquire enough legal and social rights that “living as a woman” doesn’t actually involve any significant curtailment of men’s freedoms. (If any men had tried actually “living as a woman” in Victorian England or nineteenth century India or seventeenth century Native American territory or whatever, it would very quickly have lost its appeal!)

Oh dear. Cut and paste nonsense from the US. I have a biology degree and don’t need any schooling on that side of things.

If it helps, I can bring the perspective of someone in a similar position to your daughter. My mother and I disagree on some fundamental ideological things. And yes, it is hard. I love her, and she has been nothing but a wonderful mother. But that is part of why it's so difficult, because it's hard to accept how someone like that can have views that, to me, are inhumane and hurtful to me and people I care about. I'm sure it is hard for her too, from her perspective. I would just be thankful that your daughter and yourself manage to maintain a respectful and loving relationship, and not expect it to be easy for her, because I'm sure it isn't.

Your husband is a radical feminist? How does that work?

Some distance from your DD is still what I recommend. I think young adults should be left to themselves to figure out their own opinions.

Find your own TERFY friends and talk about things with them.

Nothing wrong with being a TERF. I am also one, and proud to say so.

Id shrug it off as dd stirring.

I think some generations are almost obsessed with lables and putting people into box's.

Im be who you want to be and call yourself that but dont expect to use facilties of biological women or men if you still have the anatomy of the opposite sex.