To expect Sunday Dinner as the agreement?

[TipJarTroubadours]

Small details changed but the short of it is:

1. We allow people to stay in self contained accommodation for 'free'
2. The only 'cost' is attendance to Sunday dinner
3. Aibu to refuse to let someone stay (or charge them market rent) if they don't attend dinner

The long of it is

DH and I own a residential static caravan site. It has been in DH family a long time. It has great transport links to a major city.

We allow close family/friends to stay rent free whilst they attend uni in the city/start a new job. We have had 15 different people over the years, some for six months, the longest five years.

Currently house DS and nephew who are both at uni and DHs best friends daughter and her partner who has just started an apprenticeship. All four attend Sunday dinner, as have the 15 beforehand.

(For those that are interested, I cook the meal and then they take turns to make/buy a pudding and wash up (most goes in the dishwasher) I have had one with severe allergies who used to bring their own food, and one that was fussy so I used to make them beans on toast every Sunday. )

My sister's son has been living with us since September, I was very clear on the rules- it might seem odd but for a 10k saving a year I expect attendance at one meal a week.- they both knew about this.
Since starting he has attended one, preferring to go to the pub/gym/game on a Sunday. It has been raised with him and we have said if he doesn't attend then we will charge him rent (we have other uni students renting although they are all mature)

I have gone to my parents for half term and have just met my sister and told her the same. My parents and her think I am completely unreasonable to ask him to attend Sunday dinner, I think they are completely unreasonable to expect me to house him for free after agreeing to my rules ( there are costs involved for me, utilities etc plus not being able to rent it out)

I've said he has to attend tomorrow or I will bill them from now until Christmas and if it isn't paid will evict at Christmas.

Am I being unreasonable to expect my nephew to do what he agreed to in return for accommodation? (I don't think I am, even if expecting to attend dinner is unreasonable, he has agreed to the terms, he could have just rented halls)

Over time, it will become a genuine connection. Or, as appears to be happening, the nephew will find he is not interested in connecting, and will find someplace else to rent.

Wow, so you let them live rent free and offer a Sunday dinner on top? While that's amazing it is strange that it's a rule. You're making a lot of extra work for yourself, don't you ever fancy having a Sunday cooking off? Xx

Maybe you'd be better off charging them a small amount of rent, instead of the weird dinner setup?

Exactly. It's the compelled & controlling emotional side which is so grim. Trying to force someone to be or FEEL (or pretend to) the way you want them to. And for whose benefit? Outsiders looking in, so you can say "we're such a great family?" As I say, it's what controlling, coercive partners do. A neutral task or job in return would be so much fairer. Demanding people pretend to like you is - ugh. Like paying for an escort.

Like forced marriages, you mean?

Jesus Christ.

@TipJarTroubadours

I get it- you want some social interaction with those who you let live there for free. But this setup is so sad.
"You have to come and eat with me every Sunday evening or I will throw you out/ you have to pay rent."
Isn't it humiliating bribing and forcing people to spend time with you? I would hate to make dinner and thinking that the people who show up is here because I force them to, not by their own free will! If you want to "ask for something back" then ask for something reasonable like help around the property once a week. I would hate this setup and just hearing about it makes me feel oppressed. I would feel like a prostitute without the sex.

And what if someone got a part time job every week-end including Sunday evening? Would you then tell them they couldn't work?

I feel sorry for these young people dreading the weekly Sunday evening work at your place. And I feel sorry for you that you feel you have to force/bribe people in to come to your house for dinner. It's really sad.

My point is that pretty much everything in life is "transactional." Very few people operate 24/7 on altruism alone, and good luck trying to support yourself if you aren't open to "transactions" like selling your time to your employer, or bowing to the wishes of a client, or obeying parents. Good luck finding a place to live if you aren't willing to bow to the "power imbalance" between a bank and a borrower, or between a landlord and tenant.

People like to bandy those terms around but they don't sound as smart as they think they do.

Do you have children of your own OP?

Everyone saying it's weird but you saying don't mind that it's weird. Which is also weird, as this is a very unhealthy family dynamic. Why do you want to sit through dinner with someone who doesn't want to be there?

I get that you are enforcing rules. But what you are doing (proving free accommodation) for your family should really come from a place of love, not coercion. Very very strange family dynamic.

One of the things missing in our society are traditions. OP has a Sunday dinner tradition and I love that she's willing to cook and host once a week for people who live rent-free in her caravan.

Weird is another way (usually harsher) to describe uncommon. And that's what I'd say OP's rule is: it's uncommon.

I'm struck by the lack of gratitude of the DN. He sounds like a bit of a prick TBH. He KNOWS he's getting a sweet deal living for free, so coming to a free, and probably tasty, dinner every Sunday would be a very easy way to show his gratitude.

A wealthy enough person like OP who can give this gift, albeit uncommon, is a positive in this world. Ungrateful university students, while very common, are not a positive.

Absolutely mad and unreasonable.

Either charge them rent or don’t, but to expect them to come and pay homage every week like some modern day Oliver Twist is just completely ridiculous. Plus just WHY? Why put them through an evening of pretending to like you/ your food once a week? Surely it’s miserable for everyone? And you have to cook.

Honestly focus your efforts on trying to find some people to invite round who actually want to come…

No you do not form genuine connections by forcing adults to spend time with you. You make what could be a lovely warm and welcoming occasion into one that’s bizarre, awkward and uncomfortable for everyone. Healthy relationships do not involve coercion and control.

It’s a quite simple proposition. I’d happily pay hundreds of pounds a month to avoid having dinner with OP, she sounds utterly bonkers.

this pretty much. Weird and creepy.

Spot on. It’s quite revolting really when you think about it. OP doesn’t care one iota if her nephew is uncomfortable about it, or doesn’t enjoy her company, she is making him do what she wants or he will be punished.

True if he doesn't like OP and is solely living there because it's free, in which case he shouldn't have agreed to the terms. He wasn't forced to live there.

But connections do require time and opportunity- a Sunday dinner provides just that.

When I think back on my own social connections a lot of them did arise from contexts where I was obligated to attend (e.g. school, work, family get togethers). OP isn't even asking him to like her, just attend a social function and integrate himself a bit into the community that lives on site.

You sound horribly controlling OP. How does it make you feel knowing that people are only there because you’re forcing them to be. How sad. Why not concentrate on being someone people want to visit for Sunday tea. Weird.

But she is NOT bribing and forcing him! People need to stop framing it that way. He has many options.

Only people who find the idea appealing, congenial and pleasant need apply! This notion that some of you have, that OP is a mean and bitter crone cracking the whip to fill her dinner table, is so utterly stunted and crazy.

She is saying plainly "If you would like to be part of our circle of friends and family who create community by dining together every Sunday, you are more than welcome to join, and even have a free place to live. Let us know if that appeals."

Those to whom it appeals can join in and avail themselves of the free caravan. Those who think it's "weird" or "controlling" or don't want to spend time with "the nasty old bat" are free to move along and make their own way elsewhere.

There is no force or coerciion taking place at all. It sounds, from the tone of many of these comments, that there ARE a lot of people out there who would greedily grasp at the free caravan and then resent being expected to be part of the community. They are the weird ones.

I had this exact situation when I lodged in my first job years ago. It was with an old lady and I had reduced rent if I had Thursday fish and chips with her and Sunday tea and cake in the evening.
I ended up loving it and we had a great relationship that carried on when I moved out

Then make it a relaxed open invitation not a compulsory one like some sort of community service.

Just because you're the kind of person who would take a deal like that and then resent your part of the bargain doesn't mean all of the OP's guests do.

It's scurvy and lowdown to accept the offer and then claim to be "forced" to participate. Only a grifter would think that way, which the nephew apparently is.

Very Emily Gilmore of you @TipJarTroubadours

But she's willing to forgo the money if he starts coming to dinner now - that's the inexplicable part of it to me. If he now starts showing up, how can she enjoy his presence at the dinner? How can she enjoy hosting someone who is only there because he wants his free accommodation and would much rather be doing something different? The thought of it makes me feel itchy; I simply could not sit there as a host knowing this and still have a good time!

It’s their family tradition. As OP said, started by the generation before and not by OP. The nephew has chosen to live with the family why is it ok that he doesn’t take part?

Also, as he’s attended once since September it’s obviously NOT been a case of miss one and you’re evicted. Clearly there’s a complete lack of attempt to be part of the family on nephews part and OP feels uncomfortable about this, hence asking the advice of the internet.

That's different though - you were paying rent and could choose to eat with her for a discount. In OP's scenario, the nephew has no choice otherwise he gets evicted.

There are a lot of weird people here - I dont think it is strange, if you are housing family members, to want to see them at some point in the week. Although as a teen living with my aunt for a while I had to have this explained to me! You are not BU.