To not agree to pretend to my company that I don’t know what a man or woman is?

[Grain25]

My company has held a big team meeting this afternoon to bollock us because we haven’t been following their guidance that in our notes we refer to everyone as ‘they’ and ‘them’ unless we’ve explicitly asked if they identify as a man or woman and what their pronouns are.

It is grammatically and logically ridiculous.

They want me to pretend I don’t know if a male voice with the name Michael is a man and a female voice named Susan is a woman. They want no he/she in the notes unless we confirm with the aforementioned Michael and Susan that they are indeed a man and woman, which would make me look quite mad.

They have tried to conflate it with not assuming a married Michael is married to a woman, and that Susan is married to a man. This is completely right and proper and I hope I wouldn’t assume this.

AIBU to simply not change my notes?

You are not being unreasonable at all, but I would amend and not use pronouns at all.

AJ said.....
MP said....

Or similar.

This does make sense but then I’d be looking at notes reading

‘MP said MP could contact John for further help but MP is worried MP’s internet connection would fail. MP has said MP will try and use helpline instead’.

It’s just ridiculous. Although marginally better than ‘they’ and ‘their’.

YADNBU. How did the meeting go? Do your co-workers think it's bonkers too?

No one really said anything. We work remotely and I don’t know them well despite working with them for a fair while.

‘MP said they could contact John for further help but MP is worried their internet connection would fail. MP has said they will try and use helpline instead’.

Bit naff but not as difficult as you're saying it is.

Not difficult. Just completely ridiculous.

I try to avoid pronouns especially when talking about anyone who prefers wrong-sex pronouns.

Use of the passive voice can help with this, and generally restructuring sentences to get the same information across without the pronouns there at all. Also "The" can be used when no possessive indicator is indispensable.

Your example could instead be MP knows that contacting John for further help is sometimes appropriate but is worried about whether the internet connection would fail. MP is going to try to use the helpline instead’.

Ridiculous in the way you wrote it but far less so in the way I did.

I'm not denying it isn't irritating but I'm not sure this is the hill I'd want to die on if I was otherwise happy in my job.

Omg that’s just ridiculous. Yanbu

Thank you, will think about that.

I am almost certain that the people I speak to won’t be using wrong-sex pronouns. It is not the demographic and I have never once in the 2.5 years I've worked there come across anyone identifying as trans despite the company’s absolute desperation to.

I’m not happy. I am actively looking elsewhere.

They cannot enforce this.

YADNBU. It is utterly ridiculous. You have my sincere sympathies.

This is my thinking too. They surely cannot discipline people for referring to a man as a man and a woman as a woman.

Policy has to be legal. It's not legal to enforce change to normal, natural speech. They are on a hiding to nothing. Carry on as you are OP and I expect it will fizzle out.

@Grain25
I got halled into a HR a few months back as I haven't completed my pronouns for the end of my email - may I add this is an optional box not a mandatory one to complete.
When emailed they asked me how I identify, I relied with my name. They sent another saying no how do you identify I emailed back with my full name.
I identify as my name! It's mine I love it. Apparently that wasn't the response they wanted.
Turns out in my HR meeting I am able to identify as my name as its mine 🤦‍♀️

Honestly what an actual joke. What is wrong with these people?

I'm disappointed.
I thought we'd finished with all this shit!

This is exactly how your notes should look. You comply, don’t lie, and don’t risk misjudging a voice.

OP, could you start recording absolute nonsense as a result?
They said they were going to give it to them, but they already one so they asked PN for it but they left theirs in the office.

‘MP said MP could contact John for further help but MP is worried MP’s internet connection would fail. MP has said MP will try and use helpline instead’.

Or 'They said they could contact them for further help but they is worried their internet connection would fail. They has said they will try and use helpline instead.,

Don’t be ridiculous. There are no male voiced women called Michael.

Oh gosh this reminds me of something!!

When my postie came this morning, they couldn't get the envelope through my letterbox and so left it on the porch! It got super wet, I was pretty pissed off at them tbh.

On top of that, I saw my doctor yesterday and they said they think I'm making good progress with my mental health, which was lovely to hear. Unfortunately their computer wasn't working so I had to pick up my prescription from thr counter.

There. I just used "they/their/them" as singular pronouns - twice - and I guarantee absolutely no one had a problem with it. At most, you thought I was in the wrong thread.

They, their and them have been used as singular since the 13th century, only recently have people decided they have an issue with it.

Just use they/their. You likely use it as a singular pronoun every goddamn day, you can do it a bit more for a job you get paid for. I bet you use loads of jargon at work perfectly fine.

This would fail compliance for being nonsense. They are very big on being grammatically correct. Except for in this specific case.

That mental effort you're going to have to put in to use they/them/their: it's the same as when you have to start using '25 instead of '24 for the date. I'm sure you can manage.

Also, given your general attitude to it on here, I doubt you'd react well to someone who's trans correcting you on their pronouns. You having to be gender neutral by default means they don't have to.