To not agree to pretend to my company that I don’t know what a man or woman is?

[Grain25]

My company has held a big team meeting this afternoon to bollock us because we haven’t been following their guidance that in our notes we refer to everyone as ‘they’ and ‘them’ unless we’ve explicitly asked if they identify as a man or woman and what their pronouns are.

It is grammatically and logically ridiculous.

They want me to pretend I don’t know if a male voice with the name Michael is a man and a female voice named Susan is a woman. They want no he/she in the notes unless we confirm with the aforementioned Michael and Susan that they are indeed a man and woman, which would make me look quite mad.

They have tried to conflate it with not assuming a married Michael is married to a woman, and that Susan is married to a man. This is completely right and proper and I hope I wouldn’t assume this.

AIBU to simply not change my notes?

Organised a conference recently. Pushed by marketing to have a load of He / She button badges for people to take. Approx 300 no idea the cost . No body did

You are being unreasonable.

There is a company policy approach to record keeping. You need to follow it.

That includes (quite reasonably) not using any information which has not been confirmed.

But the problem is, you would actually have to ask every time you made a note.

How are you confirming their choice?

A d going back and changing them is crazy, because what if the person finds out you are calling them he, when they wanted to be she in July.

Hence why it’s generally easiest to go non specific.

It’s really standard in many documents and records now.

Equally, records generally are expected to be contemporaneous- so if person said he for that interaction records can reflect that even if say she next time. Although makes for a confusing read whereas they stays consistent.

I would invite them to try and see how far they get.

Now they/them is often seen as an identity under the umbrella of gender then using they/them IS misgendering if you prefer she/her or anything else for that matter. They are bigots!

Would it be useful or acceptable to read one sentence of your notes back to the client so they can agree with your summary of the situation and have the opportunity to voice any errors about pronouns at the same time? Eg: ‘So Michael, I’ve written here in my notes that ‘Michael has explained his internet is not working and has requested we send the maintenance team to fix it as soon as possible.´Hopefully that does the trick and it’ll all be sorted for you shortly. Is there anything else you wanted to ask about today?’
This would not be the right approach for a group with lots of people who identify as non binary or trans but for a client base where this almost never comes up it might do the job of unobtrusively confirming pronouns and so negate the need for singular ´they’ constantly.

Yes but... I don't identify as "they" so you're misgendering me by using it...

Humans do not need to ask a person what their sex is to confirm it.

I’m not going to follow it.

And yet, as someone with chronic sinusitis I’ve been pretty frequently misgendered / named but people who failed to distinguish between raspy and male. So while you may have superior powers of perception, those powers aren’t universal. Hence why the guidance exists.

I'm stocky and have short hair, kiss think I'm a bloke all the time. Couldn't care less.

Sorry wrong thread 😂

No, you just sound utterly ridiculous because the important grammatical aspect you left out is that it is only relevant to use singular ‘they’ if you don’t know a persons sex. So if you were sat in front of your doctor or even glimpsed postie through the window, you just sound weird if you claim you can’t tell what sex they (plural) are.

If you are really stuck, ask your dog (or your neighbours dog) - as it will be able to tell even if a person if trying to disguise their sex.

My word, yes totally ridiculous! The majority of people are just simply he/she and those who wish to be addressed by a different pronoun usually state this. Having to change the whole grammatical construction of a language to appear to show accommodation for a minority isn't what they want anyway. To be aware and accept preferred pronouns is, from my observation, what is being asked for, not to address everyone by them. Batshit!

Can't you just say I have checked

Good! It’s a ridiculous and unnecessarily dictatorial policy. I hope you get to tell them to get stuffed and then get a job with a much better company.

Absolutely bonkers. I’m still in a battle at my work as I refuse to put my pronouns in my e mail signature.

Good for you for standing your ground. You shouldn’t have to, this cannot be imposed on people. There are many valid reasons why not:

• For me, if I put pronouns, one might assume I am a biological man who wants to be known as a woman. I am a biological woman, so absolutely no need to put she/her, it is obvious! 🤦🏻‍♀️
• It is comparable to having to publicly declare your age/marital status/whether you have children/political views/religious views etc. Some people generally prefer high privacy, especially at work.
• It can fundamentally clash with a person’s religious views (which are a protected characteristic under the Equality Act).
• Gender ideology is an opinion not a fact.
• The onus should be on the minority doing something different to indicate they are, not on everybody else. It’s about taking personal responsibility.
• What if I am a person who does want to change my pronouns but wants to share that when I am ready and in my own time? Publicly stating them could be harmful for somebody who is experiencing confusion/distress about their own identity. We are not forced to publicly state our sexuality at work, nor should we be. It is ultimately nobody else’s business, nor relevant at work.

Fine when you're working with a Susan or a Michael. I work with global teams and I'm really not that familiar enough with their cultures to know whether their names are commonly male or female. Much easier to use a neutral description. Also there are plenty of names that used to be male but are now more commonly female even in the same culture. I don't think personally ita a big deal to not bring sex into consideration in the workplace. I realise I am likely in the minority here, but I'd rather that people who haven't met me have no pre conceived ideas about me, I'm fine with not pointing out I'm a woman at work.

If I’m ever forced to put my pronouns on my email signatory, I’d feel like being bloody-minded and use it/its or even he/him.

Why shouldn’t you point out you are a ‘women at work’? You have every right to be a woman at work, and be proud of it. If others have negative, preconceived ideas about you then they are in the wrong, not you. Why, oh why do women feel they need to hide their sex at work in 2025? Do not let anyone erase you as a woman!

Do these people know your name?

so... take a day and contact everyone you have contact with and ask them? This is the company line, so if you spend time doing that, it's not an issue surely? If you all do this, they will be paying you to literally twiddle your thumbs.

If you genuinely don’t know the sex of a person of course gender neutral terms are fine.

But when Tom Smith is ringing because he’s been laid off as a scaffolder and speaking with a deep male voice I’m not going to ask if he prefers he or she, or pretend I don’t know he’s a man. He’d think I was barking mad and rightly so.