To not agree to pretend to my company that I don’t know what a man or woman is?

[Grain25]

My company has held a big team meeting this afternoon to bollock us because we haven’t been following their guidance that in our notes we refer to everyone as ‘they’ and ‘them’ unless we’ve explicitly asked if they identify as a man or woman and what their pronouns are.

It is grammatically and logically ridiculous.

They want me to pretend I don’t know if a male voice with the name Michael is a man and a female voice named Susan is a woman. They want no he/she in the notes unless we confirm with the aforementioned Michael and Susan that they are indeed a man and woman, which would make me look quite mad.

They have tried to conflate it with not assuming a married Michael is married to a woman, and that Susan is married to a man. This is completely right and proper and I hope I wouldn’t assume this.

AIBU to simply not change my notes?

I speak to numerous members of the public every day. I work for a charity, and the people I speak to are vulnerable and seeking help. They’re not bothered about pronouns.

You are looking for another job anyway, so where is the issue in wasting everyone's time by following the company instructions to the letter. Malicious compliance.

If you weren't looking for another job i'd suggest just carrying on and seeing what happens, but since you are - just follow their instructions to the letter and if you are pulled up on your production slipping, point out how much longer everything takes when you have to police your own language.

What notes are they accessing of yours?

Just do what you like. If it’s a call centre job, which it sounds like it is, they aren’t going to pull you up on it.

Did you still have to ask Steve what sex Steve was once you saw and heard Steve?!

OP carefully specified when the name AND the voice both clearly match one sex or the other. One of The Bangles is called Michael, but she certainly doesn't sound like a bloke.

@ThankYouNigel theres evidence suggesting that women emphasising our sex at work means that people take what we do less seriously. That would be one of my arguments against requiring people to put their specific pronouns in their email signature.

Using neutral pronouns for people is a different argument and in some ways the opposite - it’s removing sex from the picture in settings where it doesn’t matter. That to me is perfectly reasonable. I’d much rather do that than participate in pronoun rounds at meetings or whatever.

Yes, this 100%. If it's supposed to be wrong to call a known person with an obvious sex he or she on the grounds that that person might be a they, why is it OK to wrongly assume and call the vast majority of people - who are almost certainly going to be a he or a she - 'they'?

Sorry, what do you mean?

You referred to what you write in your notes. I was wondering what you mean by that?

I'd be offended if someone asked me if I'm a woman. I have an unmistakably female name, speak and look like a woman. Anyone would be correct in assuming that of me. Someone asking me to confirm that I'm a woman would suggest to me that they think I'm a man. How can that be considered OK?

Notes about the conversations I have with people accessing the service.

We really need a whole bunch of people making complaints that they've been referred to as they/them when that's not their chosen pronouns!

my close friends are Sam, Jamie, Chris, Alex and James (I know James for a women is quite rare) - all women. Although TBF only one of them has a deepish voice and could possibly be confused (as they have been a few times) on the phone as a man (which they actually find amusing!)

I actually agree with you here! I hate being referred to as they/them and I refuse to put a pronoun on my email!

I agree. It's deliberately engineering a hierarchy in which people who use non-biological pronouns are important, but nobody else (the vast majority) is.

Apart from that, many trans/nb/other people who go by 'they' seem to like marking themselves out as 'different from the norm'. It could be argued that, if everybody is a 'they' as a norm, how are those people actually respected as being supposedly different?!

I assume these must be captured in a system then? For a minute I thought you meant private notes and thought it would be easy to ignore the directive

Dear X
I have recently read a document in which I have been referred to using the pronouns 'they' and 'them'. I find this highly offensive as a woman who is a single entity and I would like to make a formal complaint to ensure this issue is addressed.
Kind regards

In theory, yes.

Do the record it correctly? No always. Plenty of names are misheard.

Even if they get it right, is it conclusive? Nope. Plenty of names used by both sexes.

Lindsey, Cameron, Jo, Chris…….

What a stupid horrible company to work for. They are also breaking the law.

Are those their names or are they Samantha, Christine, Alexandra?

I have a unisex name along the lines of Jamie, Lee, Jesse, Jordan.

If people just read my name they could mistake me for a man, but not once have they ever done it on the phone. A mix of a genuinely unisex name paired with a voice that sounds like a man’s but belongs to a woman will be very rare.

No, sorry, notes left on the system.

I didn't meet the "Steve" in person but did speak to her by phone which was when I realised she was a female.

Alex is just Alex and Sam is actually Sammie but Chris is Christie! I agree with you BTW and purely commenting for the fact that one of my friends has a gender ambiguous name and sounds quite manly but does care if she gets mis gendered she curses her parents more for her name and her deep voice haha! She is a fantastic singer though! 😉

If you’re asking for formal names, and not just using known as names, then ask the sodding question.

Your employer employs you to do your job following their protocols. Not chose your own campaign standpoints and apply them through your work.

I'm fairly sure that if anyone you dealt with didn't use the standard sex-based pronouns they would have already informed you!