Breastfeeding needs a gritty reboot

[RightOrAMeringue]

Currently bf’ing DC2 who’s 11w old. It’s going fine, but it was still nippy/exhausting/difficult/annoying while I was getting into it again. I don’t think it was physically any easier than DC1, just I knew what to expect and didn’t over-analyse things this time. But, inevitably, the old algorithms have thrown up a lot of bf’ing kool aid, telling me (I didn’t ask) about how wonderful it is and how it absolutely is not to blame for sleep problems/PPD/anxiety/exhaustion etc etc. There’s always a footnote just to remind you that IF it is painful/not working/you hate it, it’s defo a you-problem and to “reach out”. To who is always vague, and usually will involve money.

AIBU to suggest we sack all the woo/ crunchy mama content and call it what it is: metal af? None of this “it’s best for your baby”; like, b*tch, we know. Someone not bf’ing their kid is not usually based on total ignorance, and to suggest as much is just internalised misogyny. Bf’ing is hard, it’s messy, it’s visceral, it’s a new skill your body is learning to do when it’s just been put through the wringer….can we just tell people that? So that when they inevitably get to that point where they’re hunched over a tiny crying baby at 3am, drenched in sweat, trying to put a nipple into their mouth even though it feels like 1000 papercuts when they do because they love their baby more than life itself…they can go “oh yeah, I was told about this”. Not “that smug influencer never mentioned this” or “I’m doing it wrong”.

The nhs needs to hire someone who can make some content depicting the reality of breastfeeding (with a good soundtrack, maybe Slipknot/ similar), and trust that women won’t be put off like they’re flaky children. They won’t be. People do hard things all the time - run marathons, physio, academic stuff, growing an actual human being and birthing it, be it squeezing it out your vagina or undergoing major abdominal surgery. They do it KNOWING it’s hard…BECAUSE it’s hard, even?? 🤷🏻‍♀️ Maybe we need to start being more honest about breastfeeding and people will actually engage with the messaging.

I think the EBF figure excludes children who have undergone any sort of weaning? My sister fed to 2y both times but the HV put her down as not EBF because one insisted on food at 5m, the other at 5.5m.

Yes, the WHO definition excludes any baby who's had solids before 6 months. I did actually wait with mine, but it's not news that huge numbers don't. It wouldn't particularly surprise me if our hunter gatherer ancestors had similar rates of EBF when applying that definition.

Bf’ing is hard, it’s messy, it’s visceral, it’s a new skill your body is learning to do when it’s just been put through the wringer….can we just tell people that

Totally agree. It's hard haard work in the beginning. It feels like you are carrying two bags of conkers around and your nipples have been attacked by a bear trap. For most women (disclaimer - I know for some it's not possible) it's a case of accepting this, gritting your teeth and getting on with it for those early weeks. There's no other way it's going to work!

I don’t think they have the statistics. Certainly not for the last decade or so. The infant feeding survey was stopped years ago. I BF for several years but that isn’t recorded officially anywhere.

Almost everyone I know was BFing at six months, most EBF.

Yes, there wasn't the NHS to tell you that your baby lunging for a bit of fruit you just gathered is going to RUIN THEIR GUT BIOME.

I did wait, but he was a couple of weeks early and it was a bit of a nice milestone because he was allowed to join a swimming class that day too.

My husband was 3m premature, and MIL weaned him at 4m - he had the digestion of a newborn!

The EBF figure also excludes any baby that has had anything else at all before six months. So one small bottle of formula in the first week excludes you from this definition as well.

Which doesn’t reflect the reality that a lot of babies need a small amount of supplementation, especially early on.

Things might have changed since I had my baby, but I was very aware of how difficult and painful it was for some people when I gave birth, was very ambivalent about whether or not to try it for that reason right up until the last minute, and was pleasantly surprised to find that it wasn't too bad. I think perhaps social media algorithms have a lot to answer for?

Yes my DS would have fallen into that category as he had formula in the NICU but he was EBF from coming home to 15 months.

I still think the rates in the UK are very low compared to world wide though. I think low breastfeeding rates often reflect a culture that's quite unsupportive of mothers in general.

The UK likely does have lower rates than most countries, but I can't say I'd feel particularly supported as a mother and a woman in some of the places with the highest ones either.

I agree. The mantra that it shouldn't hurt and if it does you are doing it wrong needs to be banned. I bf two babies I nearly quit the first time. Second baby I knew what I was doing but it was still excruciating for the first 6 weeks. I knew I had a good latch. Midwife insistent baby had no tongue tie just like the first time. So I have 2 theories, firstly that newborns are the problem with their dyson like suck and it takes them a few weeks to chill the fuck out and realise they don't need to try and suck your nipple odd. Or alternatively the post birth hormones are designed to make it mega painful because you are so bloody knackered and if it didn't hurt then new mothers would fall asleep and their baby would be eaten by wolves...or the modern day equivalent. In fact I think both could be true.

I find it interesting how many people have interpreted "if it hurts then investigate latch/tongue tie/technique etc" as being victim blaming. It might be due to how those individuals were treated when they did seek help but to me it seemed like a neutral "let's just see if there's anything that can be done to reduce the pain" rather than "it's your fault and here's why".

I do believe there should be messaging that also clarifies that for some women it is just painful/can't be remedied - e.g. my mum had inverted nipples so struggled and chose formula instead which makes perfect sense for her situation.

The existence of wet nurses proves that there have always been a portion of women who couldn't breastfeed, so it's evident that it's not a path for 100% of women. As long as the baby is fed and the mother is mentally and physically well it doesn't really matter for most cases - although in areas where water supply/adequate storage for formula and funds to buy it are scarce then promoting breastfeeding makes sense (admittedly doesn't really apply to the UK thankfully but explains why the WHO advocates for breastfeeding milk so strongly)

Wet nurses might have been used where a mother died, but I believe it wasn't considered seemly for aristocratic women to do it.

Absolutely

I did all the extra NCT classes for breastfeeding, read up on it and still ended up at 3 weeks postpartum sobbing to a midwife support worker. She basically said why are you putting yourself through this with the lack of sleep and soreness etc? We introduced a bottle of formula in the evening so I could get some sleep. Even went along and checked the latch. I saw so many people watch her feed and not one person picked up that she had tongue tie except my health visitor. She admitted she hadn't the training so could be wrong but she said it was very obvious. Once it was snipped we managed to feed better and we switched the night feed back.

I am frustrated that this information was never provided at the beginning to what should have been looked for. I could have so easily given up.

That's true, but I've ready many accounts as well of poorer people having their sisters or other family members come and feed their babies because they were unable to do so. Wet nurses who would work for free essentially. People who were desperate would also resort to goat milk or fortified water if they had no other option.

My point was more to do with acknowledging that even in a context where breastfeeding was the norm, knowledge on how to do it was prevalent and there wasn't an easy/cheap and healthy alternative there were still a portion of women who couldn't. So modern women who struggle/can't is to be expected and the messaging could acknowledge that breastfeeding isn't something that works for all mothers and that's OK.

Milk sharing is also a common and ancient human practice. I can imagine babies whose mothers had really significant lactation problems probably didn't survive, but there might also be a cohort where the mother produced some, not enough and the babies survived when another lactating woman in the hunter gatherer band did a couple of top up feeds a day which got them over the line.

There needs to be far more awareness than it doesn’t always work, not everyone can produce enough milk and the reasons why. It turned out I was highly unlikely to be able to EBF, but nobody mentioned anything about milk delay or low supply at the THREE HOUR BFing antenatal class I did!

What I really needed to know was the risk factors, how to safely supplement ie make up formula, sterilise etc.

We live in a country with a huge amount of support for BFing - welcoming public spaces, loads of promotion, facilities, BFing support all over the place - but virtually no information publicly available about the negative aspects and potential problems.

It's actually extremely uncommon to physiologically not be able to produce enough milk.

Usually supply issues are there because of things like the top up trap.

YANBU, thank you for this thread. I’m 2 weeks pp and had to drop breastfeeding down to just one feed a day on the left with nipple shields thanks to tongue tie and a baby treating my nipples like a dummy. Agony. Engorgement and lots of pain. Getting tongue tie cut on Tuesday then will try and rebuild supply enough to give, say, 3 feeds a day. Will do the rest wity formula.

I’m knackered, recovering from birth and need to protect my mental health from the PND I had last time, so am not going to crucify myself over this.

If it makes anyone feel better - I saw the midwife today who was lovely and said she couldn’t even breastfeed- she said whether you can or not is largely down to luck. It made me feel a hell of a lot better.

Thank you for this brilliantly helpful thread, OP.

Congratulations on your new arrival! Keep on keepin’ on! Sounds like you’ve had a time of it, but you’re rallying and kicking ass 🤘🏻keep on doing whatever feels right 💐

If you are talking about the UK then I don't really recognise that portrayal of breastfeeding in this country! I definitely don't think it's normalised feeding in public here and most of my friends who needed support paid for private lactation consultations or a private tounge tie cut as the NHS wait was too long. We literally have one of the worst breastfeeding rates in the world. It can't be that our bodies are so different to women's bodies in Norway where they have much higher rates for example? It must also be something to do with perceptions of breastfeeding and the fact we don't look after women in post partumn properly.
I think it's fine to acknowledge women may have difficulties and troubleshoot them if needed or offer alternative pathways. I don't think highlighting the "negatives" of breastfeeding is the answer!

Pumped amounts are not the same as how much a baby would feed from you though. A babies mouth is far more effective than a pump. People pump and panic they have a poor supply but actually there isn't a correlation.

Thank you so much @RightOrAMeringue! I appreciate it.

Now just hoping the engorged red breast on the right doesn’t develop mastitis…

Hard agree, it was pretty horrific for me!

It absolutely isn't largely down to luck. I would say it's due to a combination of realistic expectations, supportive partners and family members, and correct and early support from health professionals.

@HeyThereDelila your MW was right, everyone's dealt a different hand. I feel for you, I remember living a weekend hour to hour waiting for a Monday tongue tie appt. Longest weekend ever but for us it was a turning point. I also remember everyone else had bottles in the waiting room there. So much for BF is free and convenient hey?! Huge congratulations on your new arrival and best of luck for Tues.