Breastfeeding needs a gritty reboot

[RightOrAMeringue]

Currently bf’ing DC2 who’s 11w old. It’s going fine, but it was still nippy/exhausting/difficult/annoying while I was getting into it again. I don’t think it was physically any easier than DC1, just I knew what to expect and didn’t over-analyse things this time. But, inevitably, the old algorithms have thrown up a lot of bf’ing kool aid, telling me (I didn’t ask) about how wonderful it is and how it absolutely is not to blame for sleep problems/PPD/anxiety/exhaustion etc etc. There’s always a footnote just to remind you that IF it is painful/not working/you hate it, it’s defo a you-problem and to “reach out”. To who is always vague, and usually will involve money.

AIBU to suggest we sack all the woo/ crunchy mama content and call it what it is: metal af? None of this “it’s best for your baby”; like, b*tch, we know. Someone not bf’ing their kid is not usually based on total ignorance, and to suggest as much is just internalised misogyny. Bf’ing is hard, it’s messy, it’s visceral, it’s a new skill your body is learning to do when it’s just been put through the wringer….can we just tell people that? So that when they inevitably get to that point where they’re hunched over a tiny crying baby at 3am, drenched in sweat, trying to put a nipple into their mouth even though it feels like 1000 papercuts when they do because they love their baby more than life itself…they can go “oh yeah, I was told about this”. Not “that smug influencer never mentioned this” or “I’m doing it wrong”.

The nhs needs to hire someone who can make some content depicting the reality of breastfeeding (with a good soundtrack, maybe Slipknot/ similar), and trust that women won’t be put off like they’re flaky children. They won’t be. People do hard things all the time - run marathons, physio, academic stuff, growing an actual human being and birthing it, be it squeezing it out your vagina or undergoing major abdominal surgery. They do it KNOWING it’s hard…BECAUSE it’s hard, even?? 🤷🏻‍♀️ Maybe we need to start being more honest about breastfeeding and people will actually engage with the messaging.

Reading all the replies has been really interesting. I noticed a lot of the emphasis seemed to be on convincing people to try/ accidentally deterring people at the offset. I think it’s important to note that this country doesn’t actually have a problem with getting people to start….the rate’s something like 80% of mothers initiating breastfeeding. Pretty good. The problem is that that rapidly declines in the first weeks….and my hypothesis is that it’s because people feel mislead, lied to, condescended to and unsupported.

The other thing that hit me - and it’s not to have a go, it just really did strike me - was that the people who have taken this as an opportunity to talk about their own personally good experiences just seem lacking in empathy. It’s worth saying here that I, too, now feel that breastfeeding my child is the loveliest thing in the world, I thank my lucky stars I persevered and have it in my toolbox, and it’s true that I feel a sort of unbridled euphoria whole gazing down at my happy baby. And if that helps anyone hang in there, fantastic. The reason I didn’t mention it at the offset is because it doesn’t help anyone who’s in the trenches experiencing it in real time. I’m extremely passionate that other mothers and their babies get to experience what I do, but I think that requires some real talk, some
acknowledgement that one’s experience is not universal, and that we are definitely conveniently missing a big bit out when we tell people what to expect from breastfeeding. Knowing that I battled through the hard stuff with DC1 to arrive at this lovely, easygoing, convenient place with DC2 does feel good now…but it was definitely harder than it needed to be.

Lastly, If anyone’s reading this from that hard place, please know it’s not your fault you’re finding it hard, or can’t access the support. If anything you see on the socials makes you feel bad about yourself, it’s the problem, not you. And whatever you decide to do is the right decision, because you know best. It’s your automatic setting as a parent. Right now the poll tells me you’re not alone - far from it. Breastfeeding can be magical and lovely, but so can riding a unicycle, learning another language, climbing Everest….whatever. Doesn’t make it easy, nor something everyone wants to do. Stay true to yourself.

Yep honestly those three factors were massive for me too, and I am a white, MC professional!

Also no risk of running out in the middle of the night and needing to go to the shop (also a major factor in using cloth nappies, along with squeamishness at opening the dustbin and seeing it full to the brim with shitty nappies)

Honestly I felt I had plenty of information from on here, from the Kellymom site, and from our local NHS breastfeeding drop in. I actually found BFing far easier than I’d expected, despite DS having a terrible anterior tongue tie diagnosed at birth (needed to be snipped twice in his first three months). It wasn’t easy but I was expecting it to be hell on earth and it wasn’t that either.

OP mentions influencers, and honestly I’m amazed anyone thinks influencers are a decent, unbiased source of information. Most holidays are nothing like influencers suggest either, my cakes look nothing like Mary Berry’s, and my garden is not as nice as Sarah Raven’s. A homesteading mommy influencer going on about the joys of breastfeeding is an advert, not reality.

Breastfeeding was many things for me, but it was never painful. Not even the earliest bits, not even the two days when my son decided he wanted to be latched 9h straight. (I declined to offer this and went on a couple of short walks around the block whilst my husband soothed him).

I remember being hacked off that no one had prepared me for just how painful it would be feeding my second child. I never had anything like it when feeding my first baby. The stomach cramps I had every time I fed my second reduced me to tears.

The intense pain only really eased off at about 6 weeks. It was agony but the "breast is best" was so ingrained, I powered through. By week 2, I was in tears every time before I fed as I knew what was coming.

I gave birth to both my babies without any pain relief, so I know my pain threshold is high. Having something, anything, out there saying "these are the worst cramps you will ever experience in your life, far worse than labour and birth" would have helped me whilst I was walking through it.

So I thoroughly agree OP.

Everything about your OP makes me feel ill. If that’s the sort of messaging you’re going for, it’s repulsive, so I’d never engage with it.

I bf all five of mine. When I got pregnant the sixth time I had already decided I would ff, I was sick to death of being the one who had to be on call at all times of the day and night just to keep the infant alive. Expressing didn't work for me, feeding for the first few weeks hurt, and I wanted to be able to go out occasionally and leave the baby with someone else, not lug it around with me like a pile of wet washing.

I lost baby #6, so it never came to that, but when my DD told me she was going to ff her impending baby, I thought 'good on you, girl.'

I think there should also be a campaign directed at everyone else apart from the breastfeeding mother, ie that it’s a very normal thing to do everywhere in public - on public transport, outdoors in summer, at the shops etc. as well as in more expected places like cafes etc

That would go a long way I think!

Yes. Also to close family members about how they can support the mum.

I disagree. If you can, you should. Putting even more women off what's best for babies - especially in their first few weeks - is not a good thing.

I've never had kids but anything earth-mothery and hippyish around pregnancy and child-rearing makes me cringe on a grand scale and I would loathe it if I were a pregnant woman or a new parent.

I'd prefer to think of the whole experience as full-on David Cronenbourg style body horror and/or gothic Grand Guignol gore and excess. That's something I could really revel in. YANBU at all; I think you're really on to something.

Yes - that would be a good idea - to put in general public information, but they could also give out leaflets to partners or those accompanying an expectant Mum to appointments.

”You might think you can’t play a role in feeding the child if the mother is bf but you can:

• bring her food
• bring her drinks esp whilst bfing
• make sure she gets time to rest and to sleep, as that helps her body make food for the baby
• take household tasks of her shoulders so she has time to feed baby”

All that sort of thing would be great.

I agree - of my 10 person antenatal group, 8 or 9 started BFing and more than half of those stopped in the first month saying "I did not have enough supply, I could feel baby was sucking desperately on nothing for hours and it was so painful"

(The 3 who continued are all still breastfeeding now, past a year, to some degree - it's just getting through those first few weeks)

I mean, maybe these 5 women all happened to have supply issues but I understand it is very rare. I think it has much more to do with our WhatsApp chat group where everyone was sharing their schedules of how often to feed baby and talking about "15 minutes feeds" and being very supportive about how it just "often doesn't work out and that's okay".

All the babies are thriving, formula and BF babies, but I feel sad that many of these women wanted to breastfeed and didn't because of lack of knowledge of what normal BFing in the first few weeks looks like and requires.

(I support OP's rockstar aesthetic but must admit I felt more like "hairnet & slippers" than "Slipknot"!)

It's a bit frustrating that some of the exact rhetoric that OP is calling out is being repeated on this thread.

BF only "sucks the fat off you" if it doesn't turn you into a ragingly ravenous person, or if you have iron will and can live with being starving for months. I was permanently hungry which is a bad combination with being chronically sleep deprived. I tried my best to control my calorie intake but I did not manage to lose weight while massively craving biscuits when up to feed the baby at midnight, 2am, 3.30am, 5am and then up for the day at 6.30. All my bad for buying the biscuits I'm sure but I. was. so. hungry.

Also there is not enough acknowledgement that some babies are just SO much easier to BF than others. I had one who had the instinct and one who didn't really and the difference in the experience was profound.

It varies even for the same woman. I've had the magical beautiful experience, I've had the nightmare where it wouldn't work and the joy of mastitis. It's hard to paint an accurate picture when it varies so much.

I bless the health visitor who salvaged a difficult experience. She got everything working and then for a few days called in on her way to work, lunch break and on her way home just to make sure it was all going well. She was in her 50s, no children but a magician with a difficult baby and cracked nipples

I don't think she's likely to be around, she'd probably be over 100 now.

Yes!!! Im 6months into feeding my second and fed to 18months with first. With both it hurt like hell for 8-10 weeks. I paid for the advice, tied myself in knots, panicked and then found a reddit thread where people were like 'hey, yes it's worth getting checked out but sometimes this just hurts and that's ok.' it honestly made me feel so relieved and seen and helped me keep going. It wasn't my fault it hurt like a bitch.

The problem we have as a society is not accepting that our own experience isn't THE singular truth and also that other people's are no judgement and reflection on us. For example, I found birth absolutely fine and I had a back to back with my first and a nearly 11pounder for my second. Pool, gas and air, I was up the same day. I've been in told I'm lying about my birth story and it's so painful and I'm lying or wrong.

I believe people have painless breastfeeding experiences and that's amazing. I believe people have painful experiences and should be checked out as tongue tie or latch issues could be the problem, I also believe sometimes youre doing everything right but it hurts like a bitch for the first bit and as an adult woman i can weigh the pros and cons and decide for myself if its something I want to do.

I think the hardest part of breastfeeding is that the hardest part is at the beginning when you don't know what you are doing. It must be incredibly frustrating for the baby having spent 9 months having all their food requirements taken care of by the placenta and then suddenly they have to feel hunger and learn this new skill to get food.

I have severe dyspraxia so i struggled a lot, especially at the beginning. With my eldest and youngest it wasn't too bad as they were both really good at it so i could just put their heads near my boobs and they would suck like industrial vacuum cleaners. The other 2 didn't have that skill so they would suck like a vacuum cleaner that has a pen and a few bits of lego blocking the tube. They tended to doze and fall off mid feed as well.

I always think breastfeeding is like playing a duet. You have to work together and some people have to work harder than others to get the same result. And some people just can't do it and that's ok.

I have loved breastfeeding both my children so I am biased but I think it has a bad enough press! We need to look at WHY it is hard.
I think society has given us wildly unreasonable expectations of how we are meant to bounce back post partumn instead of sitting and resting and feeding. Also of how babies should only feed for 15 minutes each side (not even based on human milk) and sleep through the night at a very early age when it's actually safer for them if they wake up frequently. Also just a lack of village and all the support you need, looking after your older kids for example or having lots of people in your family who have breastfed and can show you. The latch thing is interesting as it seems more babies do now have tounge tie, I read somewhere maybe linked to folic acid? We push women home out of the postnatal ward very quickly now and don't have alot of health visitor involvement to pick up on problems.

I found it very intense for the first 6 weeks or so but it is a pretty magic thing when it does work. I feel like we've let a lot of women down as a society by not supporting them to continue.

@Allswellthatendswelll I'm really glad I had a larger than usual baby... I was lucky to be well supported to sit and feed, but still I kept wondering "why is he taking so much longer than 15 minutes??" For some reason I latched on (haha) to the idea that it must be because he was a big baby, so I kept going when otherwise I would have assumed something was wrong - only months later did I learn that near constant latching is normal during that early period.

My bump group even discussed the term "cluster feeding" but we defined it as something like "the baby feeds for about an hour or so around 6pm at night". This was a group of middle class 30-something mums who had "done the research"...

I agree. It also needs a very expensive supporting cast and services on par with the budget for a Hollywood movie packed with a- listers. In order to encourage breast feeding we need proper breast feeding support services everywhere (not just in the middle class yummy mummy areas), midwives and health visitors trained in tongue ties and feeding issues, a societal change in what we expect new mothers to be able to do post birth (go home and carry on like nothing happened, bounce back within the month). We also need to stop demonising formula feeding and saying it's breast or nothing. Combi feeding can save a new mothers sanity, it allows her a break from feeding - much needed if a baby cluster feeds for hours at a time.

It also needs it's biggest champion - le leche league - to understand that breast feeding is someone only someone who is biologically female at birth is able to do and not something a man with a fetish is able to do (regardless of how much money and surgery he has thrown at his fetish).

I agree.

No it doesn’t hurt for everyone but actually I think it hurts quite a bit for a lot of people, even when they are doing it right. I think if it goes on for months there’s an issue but for the vast majority of people I know they had a period where they had to ride it out with nipple shields and painkillers for a few days. And most did ask for help, and surprise surprise, nothing anyone could do.

Ditto, most had mastitis, most were glued to the sofa for days during cluster feeding, most had babies which didn’t “sleep through” or indeed sleep for more than about 4 hours, until, I’d say, at least 8/ 9 months. But now- kids are tweens- they are super happy and healthy and I think the mums are glad they didn’t believe the b/s peddled by some midwives/ health visitors/ the internet.

It's so variable. My first was tricky: she wasn't too bothered about trying to feed, she'd latch on once and that would be it. If it was a good latch, great, if it was a poor latch (and it was, because neither she nor I had any idea what we were doing) then I had to choose between agonising pain or unlatching her and trying again. If I unlatched her, she'd refuse to try again for ages, and spent the interim screaming.

By the end of the first week my nipples were a torn and bleeding mess, and I'd read what felt like most of the Kellymom site (a superb resource, recommend it to everyone). Week two we had figured out a way to get a reliably good latch but it was still agonisingly painful because my nipples were still damaged, and not getting enough time to heal before being bothered again.

Week three, I'd healed enough to have some resilience, and it was all happy days from there. But without Kellymom, a BF-expert friend sending encouraging and useful messages, and DH being the greatest support anyone could wish for, I'm not sure I would have coped.

With my second it was a totally different story. I knew what I was doing even if she didn't, and she was absolutely determined and focussed on feeding, so I could latch, unlatch, relatch until we got it right every time. It was painless and easy from the get-go.

Telling people how it "should" feel isn't very helpful. Everyone is different, and that means the baby as well as the mother.

The Lansinoh lanolin-based nipple cream is the BEST, btw, highly recommend that!

I couldn’t agree more with the OP! In fact I think the whole rose tinted notion of pregnancy, birth and actually BEING a parent needs to be blown up!

I have 6 children that I adore. I was very lucky not to have any serious complications or difficulties with pregnancy or breastfeeding. But that doesn’t mean I enjoyed every second of it! People said “oh you must love being pregnant” which I just think was an insane leap for them to make! I love the 6 products of my pregnancies but I didn’t particularly love being pregnant!

And it’s absolutely okay and normal not to LOVE being pregnant, breastfeeding, night feeds, changing nappies or any other part of being a parent. You love your children and do your best for them, even if that’s hard sometimes!!! And while it’s important to make informed decisions along the way, you do also have to learn to tune out the people who try to shove “their way” down your throat as the best way and trust your own gut!!!!

I agree that breastfeeding is hard at the start and that new mothers should be warned about that - but also told that it (usually) gets easier.

As well as the health benefits to the baby, which everyone knows about, I think more could be made of the convenience and cost benefits of breastfeeding.

Breastfeeding a baby at night must surely be much less hassle than bottle feeding, and it’s much easer when you are out and about too.

I genuinely haven't found it hard at all with either of mine.

The hardest bit for me is actually now, BFing a 15 month old who is boob obsessed. The early bit I didn't find hard at all.

I do think there should be significantly more education on what's normal though. I know so many women who've given up because they thought cluster feeding meant they weren't producing enough milk.

And often women have little support from pretty useless male partners.