Feminism sold a lie - Women, today, are worse off than ever

[ConservativeC2]

Listening to the women I work with, it's been interesting to hear their views about feminism and they are not happy. We are all millennial age so not too young, not too old and I keep hearing that it's the millennial generation of women that have absolutely lost out the most.

I think feminism initially promoted some idea of independence, equality and choice. Phrases like 'men hold all the money and power' at the time were very emotive whilst not entirely true. The correct statement then (and still now) is some men hold all the money and power. Most men back in the 50s-70s worked very long hours and spent pretty much all their money on their family. It was hard for everyone, but I think women were more empowered then than now.

In contrast to today, most of the women my age have to work. Whilst feminism promotes choice, most of them do not actually have a choice today. Most men today do not earn enough to run a household which means most women have to work. The worst part is they still do a larger share of the domestic work and childcare. So I think women now have it worse than ever - it's not just me, my female colleagues feel the same way. They've come to point in life where they want to start a family but they know they will have to come back to work.

Now it's all to do with feminism. There are other factors which has driven up the cost of living (inflation, property prices, profit extraction from multinational corporates etc).

@Ubertomusic - women were not “brainwashed into the absolutely unrealistic idea of "having it all"”. What - all working mothers are incapable of thinking for themselves and making their own judgments as to what is right for them? Instead we have been brainwashed? That’s a pretty insulting and misogynistic attitude you’ve got there.

Feminism is about equality of women. It’s about women being taken as seriously as men, having the same rights, choices and freedoms. Feminism is about women being able to be mothers and have paid employment - just like fathers do. No-one suggests men are “having it all” because they work and have children. No-one suggests men need to choose between the two.

Some younger posters here seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that women historically didn’t work but just led some kind of “ladies who lunch” type existence bankrolled by men. This is all bollocks (sounds bloody dull in any case and leaves you entirely financially dependent on someone else). Women have worked outside the home for centuries. I’m in my mid-50s. My grandmothers worked. My mother worked. My friends’ mothers worked.

Women who were prevented from working were often at the mercy of feckless or brutish men, desperately trying to scrape by. As PPs have mentioned upthread, housewives in the US and the UK in the 20th century were often hugely depressed - there are people for whom home-making is a vocation which continues to fulfil them after DCs are in school but for a great many women it felt like a huge waste of their full potential.

Don’t drink the tradwife Kool Aid. Things were far worse for women before feminism started demanding equality for women. Of course, you can still make the choice to be an SAHM if your partner agrees (and many do). But don’t argue against other women’s rights to make different choices to yours based on the rights hard won for them by feminism or insult those women by suggesting we have been brainwashed.

The real issue is that society hasn’t caught up. Not sure whether deliberately or not, or worse maliciously (this is what you wanted, you must suffer for it!).Women are expected to work as they don’t have children, and raise children as if they don’t work. And it is women .

From the stupidity of schools always ringing mum (despite dad having his number on file), to the pure bullshit of “the man is a woman’s mirror”, to having a show home, to having kids with 17 clubs and extracurricular and talents, to OTT Christmases and being responsible for every fucker (and their grandmother) that ever crosses our paths.

Fuck that shit.

So many expectations put on women , often propagated by other women. So many excuses awarded to men, often propagated by other women. So many precious and hard won rights freely given away or threatened, often by other women as well as men.

Fuck that shit.

I get why men do it. The status quo suits them, the status quo is easy and convenient, but why the fuck do some of these women do it?

We didn’t get sold a lie. We were given a rope. We (or more like the women before us) just never expected to have patriarchy repeatedly trying to cut it at the top end , while other women would grab our kicking, dangling feet trying to bring us back down. So we precariously dangle in the middle. If you find it easier to do so, then let go.

Not even wearing mine! Now that’s a protest.

😂 me neither to be fair x it only goes on if I'm going out out these days! There's freedom in a nutshell. Tomorrow i will be wearing a corset by choice for Halloween dressing up purposes though.... well, if i can be arsed to try it on to check it still fits later 😁

You think women in the 50's-70's had choices?

Wasn't abortion illegal, unmarried mother and baby units were still floating around, women couldn't get mortgages or access their husbands bank account without permission, domestic abuse was rife and accepted.

Yes I think as a millennial I definitely have more going for me than my grandmother's did. I'm more than happy to work than have to deal with the things that they did.

Also @GagMeWithASpoon excellent post xxx

You are your colleagues are unreasonable and so very very ignorant.

You enjoy:

• maternity leave
• legal rights to equal pay
• legal rights to a workplace free from sex-based hostility
• not being raped within marriage
• not being physically abused in marriage
• not being put under coercive control
• the vote
• the ability to open your own bank account

and so many many more things. Within living memory. You are so ignorant of all this.

All because of feminism.

But you know what - go back to the 1970s, and see what you'd like about that. And then fuck off some more.

Ignorant women like you @ConservativeC2 make me very angry - you like the freedom, without knowing who fought for you.

Women aren’t prohibited from being stay at home parents because of feminism it is because of capitalism and the economy.

in the OP you talk about men in the 1950’s choosing to spend their money on their families. Well that is great if that was what their husbands chose to do but it left women very vulnerable.

quite frankly I like being able to have my own bank account, the right to say no to sex with my husband and my education and all the other benefits of feminism. Yes I work full time, run the house, do all the kids stuff and I am tired. Do you know who else was tired, my mother, grandmother and great grandmother.

I agree, and isn't that ironic that feminism advocates on this thread shout at other women "it's all your fault!"

Many families live on less than that!!! I've never earned anywhere near as much as that

Too true.

@PomegranateVase do the husbands of your exhausted working-5-days-a-week friends also work 5 days a week? Are they equally exhausted?

If the answer is yes to both of those, the problem isn't feminism. If it's no to one or both, the problem is not enough feminism.

Capitalism is an insatiable monster that will utilise any system to feed it. So while I agree it has made use of the changes brought about by feminism, it also made use of the patriarchy. In WC homes the woman in the domestic sphere made it possible for the male worker to work harder and be more exploited than would have been the case without her.
My granddad would come home from his shift of work his body was too old and damaged for, and my grandmother would basically put him back together so he could go and do it again the next day. A clean and comfortable home where he didn't need to lift a finger, a meal, the ability to rest and recover. Her work was needed so he could do his, so the boss got two for the price of one. And because the boss didn't even want to pay properly for one, my grandmother had to clean other people's houses and take in sewing to make ends meet.
Capitalism is very taxing on women's time, health and energy levels, irrespective of feminism.

I suspect if the wives didn't want children or the husbands had to do everything for them from birth then 95% of men would choose not to have them

“ParmaVioletTea · Today 11:47

You are your colleagues are unreasonable and so very very ignorant.
You enjoy:
maternity leave
legal rights to equal pay
legal rights to a workplace free from sex-based hostility
not being raped within marriage
not being physically abused in marriage
not being put under coercive control
the vote
the ability to open your own bank account
and so many many more things. Within living memory. You are so ignorant of all this.
All because of feminism.
But you know what - go back to the 1970s, and see what you'd like about that. And then fuck off some more.
Ignorant women like you make me very angry - you like the freedom, without knowing who fought for you.”

So well put, @ParmaVioletTea. This with bells on.

Easy to be nostalgic for the 70s, but they were a bad time for women, particularly to do with opportunities in education and employment. Decent jobs for women hardly existed and women did not tend to rise in whatever organisation they were in. It was ceilings and overt sexism all round. Since then there has been an explosion of opportunities and a move to take sexism in public life a lot more seriously. Millenials probably don't realise the revolution that has happened in women's lives since the 1960s and 70s.

Of course women have to work, they're adults.

Feminism changed every damn thing for the better. I'm currently reading a detective novel written in the 1970s, the casual misogyny is astounding. Any woman currently whingeing about feminism knows absolutely nothing about what went before.

Agree, I know plenty of others who live on less than we do with Mum at home. Depends what is prioritised as ‘essential’.

I hated being a wife in the 80's, you often had to have to have your husbands permission to buy anything big, he could beat you and the police would do bugger all about it.
There was rampant sexism at work, the men would be promoted while us women scraped the bottom of the barrel, people at work would grope you and nothing was done, my boss did his best to sack me when I got pregnant, I won that round but he swore I'd be gone if I got pregnant again.
The most awful misogyny was everywhere.
I left my husband and brought up my son alone, it was a lot easier to do that than have a lazy arse man to look after as well as working and everything else.
I'm 63 now and have the respect I deserve at work I find my life is much easier without a man in it, unfortunately they never seem to change while everything is changing around them. That's probably why they are so miserable all the time..

I agree on this too. That's why I also think the elites are diverting the anger accumulated by the failed capitalist system to steer as many divisions as possible including the fight between sexes. It's evident on this thread: "you're not exhausted and desperate because you're being drained by capitalism, it's just your husband is a lazy w**ker, you must take upon yourself another work shift to constantly "educate and discipline" him as you clearly don't have enough on your plate already, and if he refuses to become as overworked as you are, divorce him and live in a broken home!"

And women apparently buy into this bullshit. When in reality there should be a constant fight for workers rights that are being eroded for both sexes.

Both incorrect. We live in one of the most expensive areas outside of London. We have a 3 bed end terrace which happens to have generously sized front and back gardens, which yes I take great pride in maintaining!

It wasn’t inherited, my DH and I bought it ourselves with our own money. We’ve been financially independent from our parents since our early ‘20s. We’ve been together nearly 20 years, planned ahead very strategically and are both completely in sync with how careful we are with money. I’ve never actually owned a credit card, had a car loan or anything like that. We’ve only ever had what we can afford.

Well we are right now. I know plenty of others going it on less as well.

Me neither 😁 I never wear one if I can help it, so fed up with the discomfort.

You're right, there should be. But I still think alongside that we shouldn't forget about compound disadvantage, and that where a woman and man are facing a similar fight against class and wealth inequality he is still typically better off than she. Hence we need feminism alongside our other fights.

@ConservativeC2, are you actually going to come back to the thread to tell us what you think after reading the many excellent posts which have highlighted the various ways in which feminism has benefited women?

Or did you just want to post your tradwife views without really engaging in any discussion?