Feminism sold a lie - Women, today, are worse off than ever

[ConservativeC2]

Listening to the women I work with, it's been interesting to hear their views about feminism and they are not happy. We are all millennial age so not too young, not too old and I keep hearing that it's the millennial generation of women that have absolutely lost out the most.

I think feminism initially promoted some idea of independence, equality and choice. Phrases like 'men hold all the money and power' at the time were very emotive whilst not entirely true. The correct statement then (and still now) is some men hold all the money and power. Most men back in the 50s-70s worked very long hours and spent pretty much all their money on their family. It was hard for everyone, but I think women were more empowered then than now.

In contrast to today, most of the women my age have to work. Whilst feminism promotes choice, most of them do not actually have a choice today. Most men today do not earn enough to run a household which means most women have to work. The worst part is they still do a larger share of the domestic work and childcare. So I think women now have it worse than ever - it's not just me, my female colleagues feel the same way. They've come to point in life where they want to start a family but they know they will have to come back to work.

Now it's all to do with feminism. There are other factors which has driven up the cost of living (inflation, property prices, profit extraction from multinational corporates etc).

Speak for your ancestors and leave mine alone.

In the 19th century, mine didn't live in the feudal state like yours. My GGM ran a business alongside her husband. Another GGM owned land. Women in Europe ran businesses alone and even travelled for business and trade since as early as the 17h century. It is well documented. Read the memoirs of Glueckel of Hameln for example, it's a very easy read.

But you have convinced me that yours were in feudal servitude until 40-50 years ago 😁 As everyone else's on this thread, it seems 🤔

How am I worse off? I have an education, I own property and have a pension, I work in a fulfilling career and have my own money, I have access to medical care and free contraception. Society and the law respects my choice not marry or have children. I have a loving and equal relationship with my DP but have the financial independence to walk away any time that I need or want to and the law will support me.

Yes I still have to clean my house and get up and go to work on a dark morning, yes my DP pissed me off this morning as he forgot to wash his mug before he left for work so I did it, but honestly - life is so much better for Western women now that at any other time in human history.

I have more freedoms as a woman in Britain today than any of my ancestors. I’m pretty happy about that tbh.

Well lucky you. My female ancestors were domestic servants or factory workers until they married. My maternal grandmother died of TB in slum housing, the rest of the family were eventually rehoused in one of the earliest council houses. I doubt any of them owned anything much.

@Ubertomusic There were some limited property rights for women pre 20th Century - ironically they were often better if you weren't married or were windowed. Things improved with the Married Women's Property Act in the late nineteenth century. But for a lot of history anything a woman owned would become property of her husband upon marriage, including her children.

As many others have pointed out in reality a woman's rights and quality of life was totally dictated by the attitude and whims of her husband (or father/brother if not married).

Whilst your post may be true to you and your friends OP, it's just an opinion.

If you're blaming feminism for the fact you have to work because men are poorer, that's a you problem.

I feel second hand embarrassment as a woman, that you think feminism is a bad thing.

Feminism gave us choices and control over our own lives - it did not promise it would be easy. With rights come responsibilities.

Sure, I expect in the past there were women content in the gilded cage of traditional marriage. But many more were abused, frustrated and deeply deeply unhappy. Further more anyone who dropped out of this cage or failed to even make it in to one were routinely cast out of society, discriminated against and had very very hard lives.

Does that sound "easier" or "better".

Time and again, I marvel at the strange passivity in threads like this - here and elsewhere. It goes hand in hand with "Feminism failed us", "Feminism sold us a lie", etc. It feels like Feminism is/was an institution, a political party or similar - as though there was a group of influential women directing national and global policy. Sometimes it even feels like women see Feminism as a fairy godmother who came up short on ballgowns and charming princes!

There never has been such an institution. Feminism's a grassroots movement. As is usual with grassroots movements, feminism's every gain is made against fearsome opposition. It's a lot like Black Americans saying "Civil Rights failed us!" Every single step towards real freedom and equality is a step taken by crowds fighting together against a far more powerful enemy.

That enemy constantly strives to reverse those gains, to put himself back in the position of absolute power. Women, like Black Americans and gay people, need to keep reasserting our rights or we will lose them. We (you) need to keep organising, campaigning and fighting for the many freedoms and opportunities we still lack.

Men are slow to step up but the enemy is not "men" as such. It's patriarchy - another amorphous movement, but this one has millennia of consolidated power behind it. Patriarchy never lets its guard down: when women make progress, patriarchy pushes back.

The opposite of patriarchy isn't matriarchy - that's a different system altogether. The opposite of patriarchy is feminism. Would you really choose oppression over freedom?

The strange passivity I'm hearing comes from Fairy Godmother Syndrome™, as if Feminism had promised millennial women a life of affluent bliss, all mod cons and a devoted husband surrounding her charmed life of rewarding career seamlessly blended with even more rewarding children and a fulfilling social life. Did it?

Did you read a Feminist Party manifesto setting this before you? Did you and many others vote the party into power, only to be disappointed by this Feminist Government's failure to deliver the bliss? That never happened - because there's never been a feminist government. Never. Isn't that shocking?

What feminism said to you was more like "Millennial women, we're delighted to tell you that you've got it better than any generation of women in recorded history. Make the most of it, enjoy it, but don't stop fighting. The war's a long way from over yet and those patriarchs are coming for you. Be warned, they fight dirty. Here, take our swords. Go forth!"

So, yeah, go forth. Win some more steps, for your daughters.

@GarlicHound

Brilliant post x

I am not lucky at all as I'm much worse off than my ancestors and have no choice whatsoever but to work till I die.

I agree with PP who say it's down to capitalism but I also think capitalism utilised feminism as an ideology to force women into work with no real choice, just to exploit all potentially available workforce, as in the case of @PomegranateVase . Women were brainwashed into the absolutely unrealistic idea of "having it all" when in reality we can't have it all as childbearing is very taxing on women's health, time and energy levels.

Brilliant post
I second that.

@MidnightMeltdown
A woman who depends on a man for money will never be his equal, and he will never see her as an equal (regardless of what he might say!
How about a man depending on a woman for childcare and keeping a home? A couple is about team work. My DH and I depend on each other. He couldn't work in the job he loves which includes periods of absences if I was not a sahm to our dc (one autistic who needs 1:1). We are both happy with our roles and consider each other as equals but to you I am not equal to him? He's maybe more feminist than what you are.

Totally agree. I really hope that the OP comes back to read it.

Thank you so much. [performs wobbly curtsy]

If women stop having children, they will simply vanish…

Your ancestors were lucky then. They were insulated from the realities of most women by money. If you are less well off than them that is down to politics and economics. In 1976 you would have had to have a male guarantor to get a mortgage but you can do that now. If you cant afford a house it's not due to the failure of feminism it's capitalism.

@arcticpandas not to diminish the value to a family unit of a caring role it is not the same, as money buys freedom. That is it really. If you don't have your own money you will never be truely free.

They were not really moneyed, the business was just a bakery, nothing posh, and GGM had to work in it so not insulated either. But she was certainly not "owned" or controlled by her husband (in fact, it was probably the other way round 😂 )

As I said, I agree it's late stage capitalism but it is also a fact that all strong and long standing ideologies are developed and sustained by the elites. Feminism is no exception but the masses just don't or can't reflect on this.

I remember reading a quote from 18th century that for women with any kind of money that marriage was worth it for the widowhood.

This is so well articulated - and i very much agree with you about the dangers of Jordan Peterson.

He is Andrew Tate (the wolf) dressed up in the clothing of a middle-class, middle-aged pseudo-intellectual professional (the sheep). Some of his videos focussing on (for example) the psychological benefits of a routine and self-discipline are innocuous and serve as a gateway to his darker materials.

The old style would only work if you had the perfect husband, earning lots of money who ensured you were well cared for pension wise, and who never let you down in any way. They are pretty thin on the ground so in the meantime it’s very important women are not left helpless when the nowhere near perfect husband lets her down (and they are not thin on the ground).

As someone born in 1952 i can categorically say that it isnt the changes in womens freedom and choices that are to blame for the very real problems for everyone you are. talking about! Neither is the Equal Pay Act to blame, or the fact that women can enter all the professions, or women no longer having to leave work when they married...i could go on.

This type of rhetoric is the lie that today's conservatives want us to swallow. Yes life is hard. It's always been hard. I had my first child at 19 and the only thing I've known all my adult life is work, work and more work.
On the other hand, I am an actual adult with the same responsibilities and freedoms as anyone else. I don't need a man's approval to go to work and dispose of my own money. To get an education (which was denied to my own mother in law, not in this country I might add). Society is no longer forcing me to be married. It used to, in the bad old days. Now marriage is a choice I can freely make. There are laws in place to protect me if my husband turns abusive. No system is perfect and the economy is fucked, which is in fact the real problem. To lay that at the door of feminism really makes me angry. Finally, we are fully fledged members of society and you'd have us believe women want to throw that away? To think that given the chance, we can't head back to where we were, which was at the mercy of males? I don't want to be subjected to anyone's good will. I want to be accountable for my own actions and set my own course. I'm not demonising men of the past, by the way. My grandfathers were both excellent men. They treated my grandmothers with kindness and respect. They had a sense of duty. And they also could see that women needed to be treated more equally in society. Most men aren't monsters but the vulnerability that comes with having no rights (which was the case prior to feminism) is just unacceptable. Considering that thanks to social media, many of today's 'men' are more like entitled little boys with zero sense of duty, backtracking on feminism right now would be a disaster too great to even describe.

Right. Off to burn my bra. Again.

I reckon there are alot of smouldering bras at the moment thanks to this thread.....

Oh no, not a whole 5 days a week!

Try 6 days a week, 14 hours a day, being paid half what a man gets for the same hours, and still having to do all the shopping, laundry, housework and childcare.

No right to keep the money you earn, no possibility of higher education to get out of the drudgery.

No right to refuse sex to your husband, no right to divorce, no right to your children if your husband divorces you. No rape crisis centres or domestic violence shelters. If you run away from your husband you can be forcibly returned and legally required to live with him. No contraception, no safe abortion.

If you can find time and money to go out you can't go to a pub, or a restaurant, or the theatre without a male chaperone (or even with one, for many pubs). There are no women's loos, so you can't stay out more than a couple of hours.

If you leave the house without a man - especially after dark - any policeman has the right to subject you to a forcible virginity check in case you're a prostitute.

Your chances of conviction if accused of any crime are high, because your testimony is worth half that of a man and considered on a par with the testimony of a child. If you are jailed you are kept in a communal cell with violent men, who will almost certainly rape you.

But sure, feminism's a problem and life would be all butterflies and rainbows without it.