To be hurt children were excluded from a family day out this weekend?

[ladyrushford]

Hello. So - bit of a thing this. I married the oldest son of five siblings (4 boys, 1 girls)!and three of the siblings have children of their own. My DH and I have 3 - DS1 (13), DD (11) and DS2 (4). Two of my husband’s brothers have two kids a piece so there are 8 cousins in total. Our DD gets on really well with one of her cousins, a girl who is 9. Our oldest son has severe cognitive delays and tends to keep to himself. He is also the oldest of all the cousins (there are 8) but he loves his family and loves seeing his cousins, just expresses it differently.

Anyway, my SIL invited my daughter over for a sleepover with two of her cousins. There was no invitation for my two sons, which I put down to age and perhaps need as well. My oldest son was quite upset he wasn’t invited but I tried not make a big thing of it and said it was likely he was a lot older than the others. But it didn’t sit well with me. My DH shrugged it off as he doesn’t like conflict or confrontation of any kind.

My BIL actually collected our DD on Saturday (off his own back). We live an hour away, the majority of the family are relatively close to one another. I am not very close to my IL’s though I tried for years to get on better terms with my SILs (wives of my husband’s brothers) but all invitations/suggestions were always politely rebuffed. I am not invited to a lot of events - baby showers, engagement parties etc. i find out after the fact. It stings but what can I do? We’ve never fallen out but something is rotten.

DD goes for the sleepover. On Sunday I see a big host of photos on WhatsApp. Two of the brothers and their families were in the pictures with all their kids. Only myself, DH and two sons were excluded. They didn’t even hide it - but took photos as if to brag about what a lovely day they were having?? I can’t think why they thought this would be ok and for the first time my DH is quite shocked by the behaviour towards us and also can’t understand why this would happen? I feel like it comes back to their dislike of me (without making it all about me) because what possible reason would they have to exclude their nephews? I do wonder if they just don’t want my older, complex needs son around which would make me very, very angry. I can’t work out why they don’t care about my 4 year old?

My daughter had a great time but I realise now we can’t let this happen again as we’re essentially allowing the exclusion of two of our kids. I don’t need to be best mates with everyone but I’ve never had a problem with my SILs (I do now though, the fucking bitches). I collected her from their house on Sunday and spent the entire drive rehearsing what would I say, then bottled it, purely out of respect for my husband. They even asked after my sons, and I said, ‘they would have loved to have come to the pumpkin picking thing’ but it was completely ignored.

Would I AIBU to just wash my hands of them all, and cut contact? I never feel welcome and only see them at my PILs house and honestly, they aren’t my biggest fans either. It’s exhausting but I keep the peace for my husband and for kids? So they have a big loving family (I don’t have cousins, or aunts or uncles or anything like that). But I’ve had enough of this and feel it will just hurt all my kids in the long run, even though my daughter adores her cousins so much.

So…AIBU to just never see them again??

Living an hour away probably doesn’t help.

I wouldn’t invite someone to drive two hours to pick some pumpkins. I wouldn’t invite someone to drive two hours for a baby shower either. Though clearly your Sils are close and yes possibly don’t like you too much for some reason as an added extra there.

Pumkin picking however was likey a ok so the girls have had a sleep over what shall we do today, oh I hear folly farm is doing pumpkin picking cool, I’ll text Sil who lives 10 minutes away see if the boys want to come. 30 minutes later they are at the farm.

I know we have done stuff like that short notice no waiting around just get up and hey let’s go to the beach or actually pumkin picking. We wouldn’t be wanting to hang around an hour or two waiting for you to get ready then drive there. Just sat trying to kill time. Kills the moment.

Ive read a few people say you need tickets to pumkin picking but there are at least four farms locally that are just rock up and pay here.

It sounds like the other two sils/bils are friends as well as being family so they do stuff together separate from the family stuff. Being the only girls your dd and the girl cousin have developed a friendship which your sil and bil are happy to encourage but that hasn’t extended to the rest of your family.
it’s hard to know why, it could be your sons needs or they might not get on particularly well with you and/or your husband.
They might be happy in their own little set up and not feel the need to include other siblings.
But I agree it’s thoughtless of them to not extend the invitation particularly as your dd was going.
in terms of managing it with your boys I’d play it down and just say dd and girl cousin are friends. I wouldn’t stop your dd from seeing her cousin.

I think if you keep reframing things as a “family event” or assuming you ought to be included to things just because you are “family” It’s going to lead to upset, because the other members of the family obviously don’t view it like that.

I’m one of five. Similar situation, 10 kids between us. I almost never meet up with all my siblings together, because there are so many of us together with all our kids too. It’s only really things like christenings. Even for Easter or Christmas we usually arrange it so one family is leaving just after the other arrives - because there isn’t really room for us all to stay in the house.
So we mostly meet up with just one sibling family at a time, and that’s fine! I enjoy seeing the pictures!
Having some family members doing something together doesn’t make it a “family event”. And honestly, when we have tried to do a day out with multiple sibs, we usually end up splitting into two smaller parties anyway. It’s really hard to keep that many children all doing something at the same pace.

I sometimes invite one DN for a sleepover and not the younger siblings. They are too little, and I don’t really have room to accommodate them all anyway, including in the car.

I didn’t invite my SIL (or my mum, or my sister) to my hen do, or baby shower, and they didn’t invite me to theirs either. Nobody was excluding anybody, or felt excluded, we just viewed them as something for close friends.

Not withstanding all those positive attributes he is a 13 year old, on the point of puberty, but with the understanding of a much younger child. Sadly this mismatch is only going to become more obvious as he matures physically.

I can understand why your relatives are reluctant to invite him for sleepovers, or other events without you. All you can do is get your OH to explain to his siblings that while you accept their unwillingness to act as a locum parent to your eldest child ,he is old enough to understand that he wasn’t invited and that this has been hurtful to him. You don’t want to dump and run with him, but you do want him to be recognised and valued as a family member, and would appreciate some generosity of spirit extended towards a child who is going to face difficulties enough in his life without his relatives joining up to dismiss his feelings.

I think this is a really good point.

The two SILs who probably organised this- they aren't even sisters in law - they are sisters in law in law.

I have one sibling in law in law who I am friends with, and one I've barely met.

Isn’t a great advert for these huge families is it? Just too unwieldy for everyone to meet up so people splinter off and upset caused. So much easier to have one max two siblings and their families.

Op I think your are over thinking this. It sounds like the 9 yos parents organised the sleepover. And the pumpkin picking idea has come later.

I think if anything DH maybe wants to ask why he wasn't invited, but thats putting the brothers on the spot, they are hardly going to admit 'well we dont like the Mrs' or 'we find the boy too hard'.

Do you and DH ever instigate days out with them? Would they come?
Thats maybe where you start to build relationships with them.

Getting upset isn't obligatory. In my massive family we understand that relationships follow their own paths and you come and go into the flow of family life depending on your circumstances. My family never fall out over family events. Or birthdays. Or presents. Or Christmas.

My DP is from a very small family and they're always falling out with each other over minor slights or these kind of 'why wasn't I invited' grievances. You'd get nowhere with that attitude in my family.

Having said that, I'm not pro big families. Ours is just big because we're Irish. Not many of my generation have had more than one or two kids.

The fact that they live close to each other explains a lot. I suspect that they only invited your DD for the sleepover because of the friendship with her cousin, and getting to gather for pumpkin picking was fairly spur-of-the-moment and it never once occurred to them that you might want to pack the boys into the car and do two hours driving to pick pumpkins when there are probably places nearer to you where you can do that.

Well your BIL had your DD for a sleepover and they obviously just met up with the other BIL and his kids the next day? Probably because they get along better.

So out of 5 siblings, only 2 were actually there.

I feel like you are reading far, far too much into this.

I can't imagine anyone thinking that a teenage boy would want to go pumpkin picking either...

Agreed. I’m the eldest of five, and while we virtually never all get together, there are no feuds or resentments about ‘exclusions’.

The next day, two brothers who live near each other take their kids out. One of yours only goes because she's still there from the night before.

Exactly.

So 2/5 siblings went pumpkin picking and your DD went for a sleepover? Doesn't sound like you're being excluded to me. Everyone can't do everything together all the time. They live near each other, your DD is spending time with her similarly aged cousin. Just how it goes sometimes.

You wrote a very long , not kind or nice post , it wasn’t an honest , geuine take on things , just not nice ..
OP is 43 years of age , long time since she was 18 , everyone grows up as OP has , & anyway if you read her post , what , she larked around a bit , no huge drama there 🙄..
Not something you’d carry with you unless you were a very small minded individual..

” It would just remove her escape from the complexities of home “ , Seriously, what’s with the nasty comments ??, implying her daughter has a hard life at home .
I think you are someone who should take other’s feelings more into consideration before posting anything….

Absolutely.

I couldn't believe when I read the "fucking bitches" comment. The "fucking bitches" who had your DD for a sleepover and took her pumpkin picking with her cousins?

Wow. And you wonder why they didn't invite you.

I am really sorry you are upset, and I understand feelings of exclusion aren't nice.

But I do think you are taking this way, way more to heart than you need to.

If they don't like you - really does it matter?. Do you actively like them yourself, and want to spend time at their baby showers, hen nights etc etc? Why, if they treat you so badly?

Especially, I cannot grasp for a second why you or your family care about not going to the pumpkin picking - it's such a shit activity. Because it's not like strawberry picking or something when you pick loads - you typically pick one pumpkin - lasts about 10 seconds in total - what can possibly be considered "activity-like" about that?

I don't mean to be negative, but it's an absolute gimmick and I really don't feel you and your son's and DH have missed out on a great day. You have essentially avoided a shit, boring day out with people you don't even like. I would say that is a massive win win!

Don't nurture resentment for the sake of it, it's not worth it. Stay cordial with these people for your dd's sake - that is all you need do.

Rather than focusing on people who don't like you, focus on your friendships/your own family. Invest in those who actually want and are worthy of your time.

Good luck!

No, she may well have (I’d say obviously has) grown up a lot since 18 but that doesn’t mean whatever she did that made them dislike her didn’t happen - and where some (most?) people would move on, others won’t. There is obviously something they dislike about her -
it doesn’t make it kind, it doesn’t mean you or I or anyone else wouldn’t have moved on but you don’t know what it is they don’t like, what led to this point, and whether it’s justified. And really, sadly, it doesn’t even matter if it is not justified - you can’t make people want to be your friend or want to socialise with you, even if you’ve never done anything to upset them. Sometimes people just don’t click.

Regarding the other comment, you obviously have no experience of growing up with a sibling (or child) with complex issues or disabilities, or a large age gap between siblings. If you had, you’d know there’s nothing nasty about what I posted, but lots of truth in it. By default the needs of the child with a disability will always come first with their parents because it’s a need - they need that care. That’s not a criticism of their parents at all, but it is a fact. Growing up with a sibling with disabilities is challenging. Having an escape from that, where you don’t have to think about your sibling’s needs, is really important. That’s why groups/activities/days out for young carers are funded too.

No, I don’t have any experience thank God with my own children or siblings with special needs ..
I can only imagine it being very hard, but that’s all i can do is imagine ..
Obviously I realise in a home with a child with special needs , siblings need to be able to have their own space & time away , I just felt you were implying OP has an unhappy home which I thought unfair ..

I just think with regards to being excluded , OP herself by In-laws , I just think that’s awful , I would feel very bad about myself if I intentionally hurt someone’s feelings & that is how you feel if not included..
I mean hen parties, engagement parties, baby showers , there are lots of others at these so it’s not like it’s one on one ..
Wouldn’t you just act like a grown up & include everyone, & if you don’t see eye to eye just avoid , plenty others there to mingle with 🤷🏻‍♀️ , at least you’re not leaving out, when at the end of the day everyone part of the same family ..

Yes, I would invite my sister in law to hen parties and baby showers.

But neither you nor I actually knows why they don’t. And I never said it wasn’t hurtful, or that I wouldn’t be hurt (I would).

The bottom line is though, encouraging her to feel hugely hard done by and further villainising the BILs and SILs isn’t going to get her what she wants (to be included), it’s just going to get her daughter excluded.

I never actually saw it from that perspective , no you are correct , all that will end up happening is her daughter will be excluded , & that would be awful..

My daughter had a great time but I realise now we can’t let this happen again as we’re essentially allowing the exclusion of two of our kids. I don’t need to be best mates with everyone but I’ve never had a problem with my SILs (I do now though, the fucking bitches). I collected her from their house on Sunday and spent the entire drive rehearsing what would I say, then bottled it, purely out of respect for my husband. They even asked after my sons, and I said, ‘they would have loved to have come to the pumpkin picking thing’ but it was completely ignored.

The brothers and their families live an hour away. Her BIL actually went to the trouble of collecting the OP's DD on Saturday to bring her to the sleepover.

The OP referring to her SILs as 'fucking bitches' is a complete overreaction to the above events. If the OP has a history of similar overreaction, it is understandable why they would keep their distance.

Agree with @EastGrinstead how very sad is it that the dd is basically being told. 'No you can't have this for you, if your brothers don't get, neither will you.'
As pp have put, that's a clear way to either make a doormat/martyr of the dd, or for her to be very upset and feel lesser. Wonder if either of the boys would be refused something If their sister wasn't involved?

I never said that!

I feel like the thread has gone from ‘hmm, maybe see the bigger picture’ to quite a lot of vitriol aimed at me if I’m honest. all I wanted to ask was - look, am I being silly getting upset that my two other sons weren’t invited to what ‘looks’ like quite a big day out? Im basing this on photos by the way, not some sneaking paranoia.

The sleepover was the key event in my head. We didn’t know that they were joining up with another part of the family to go out together. Even my DH - who adores his brothers - is quite put out by it all and he’s rarely bothered by stuff like this, as he frequently tells me because I don’t have a big family I don’t always understand the dynamics. And much of what has been said is completely relevant and very insightful. And yes, I should remove myself (and my not-great) relationship with my SILs but I’m sorry, it felt really targeted and quite orchestrated to avoid inviting my sons or myself.

I know my SILs. One is very organised, a natural born planner. She has a high flying career, does very well for herself, I admire how she juggles career and the family. She plans everything in advance. There’s no way that day out (for the kids!! No sane adult wants to go pick a pumpkin surely?!) was off the cuff. I just know that. I can’t prove it but I know.

And yeah. I get it - maybe I’m just not their person. That’s fine. What I’m worried about is that their desire to avoid me is now affecting my other kids because to invite/include my other kids would naturally mean I would attend as well. I didn’t want to offload all my kids on others. I’m not like that. And sorry, I do want all my kids to have great relationships with all their cousins - I’m not comfortable with the idea of favouring one over the other but I do LOVE the idea that the only two girls are besties. So cute 🥰

That was my point. I wouldn’t ruin anything for my DD. I was just asking for some balanced opinions but actually, quite a lot of the posts have just gone out to attack someone who they’ve never met, might have been feeling really vulnerable and was trying to negotiate a situation without causing permanent harm to family relationships. No wonder loneliness is the modern disease.

And no, I’m not ‘hiding’ anything. In fact, I reckon in my upset I revealed far too much!!

Yes, I wouldn’t want that to happen at all. The only one who will lose out is my DD and I’m not going to do that.

but the general consensus is that I’m being unreasonable to ask why my sons weren’t included in the wider day out and if that’s the case then naturally I’ll just take it on the chin and be grateful that my DD has gone friends.

It seems unlikely that any of the boys would be denied a request if their sister were not involved.

Her needs take a back seat to theirs, and, as seen above, any invitation extended to this young girl will elicit deep resentment from her mother.