New guy put me off right before we had sex for the first time

[Brooklans]

Just wondering if this would put anyone else off or if I’m being a bit silly.

Background info: I’ve been single for 7 months. Had a few dates here and there, but not slept with anyone since breaking up with ex-dp, as I didn’t like anyone enough to do so. I have been seeing this guy for a month now, and we were about to have sex for the first time over the weekend, but I got put off and left early.

We were at his house, first time I’d been over there. Sat on the sofa watching tv, we were hugging and began kissing. It had been no longer than 15-20 seconds into kissing, our clothes were still on, no foreplay or heavy petting, when he said
”Suck me off and make me cum first” (before we have sex, he meant)

It was just so premature and abrupt, it turned me off. It didn’t feel natural in anyway. I was planning on eventually giving him oral sex, but the fact that he ‘ordered’ me to do it quickly, while we still had our clothes on, sat on his sofa, it felt so transactional.

After he said it, my face must have showed some disgust or disappointment. I sat there and he asked me what was wrong, I said “You’ve ruined the mood”

He apologised, he said his reason for saying that was because he was worried he’d cum quickly. He thought if I’d given him oral sex first, we could have a break then have sex later, and he’d last longer, and that he was actually thinking about my needs (not entirely convinced on the last part).

It’s killed my attraction to him now I think, I’m not sure how to get back to the place I was at before.

AIBU?

No. But that isn't the case with young women - where it is assumed that they will shave the pubic area and are weird if they do not.

More likely due to needing to deal with crabs, body lice and typhus.

Think about it - sex work has been part of human existence forever and so have parasites & the diseases they carry - what better way to show somebody is clear or 'clean' of those than to remove the hair?

The 'clean' then gets embedded in culture.

Nobody is confusing a shaven adult woman with a pre-pubescent girl.

And if they are they lack the cognitive maturity for adult sexual relationships.

By this logic women who prefer clean shaven men are paedo-esque as a clean shaven face makes a man look pre-pubescent.

And who calls women weird for not shaving their pubic and expects it? Who?

Well duh

@deararethymountains speaks the truth. Thank you for not being afraid to repeat these facts. Porn and watching porn are So SO insidious.

But where did that genuine preference come from? I'd say partially porn, partially marketing companies, partially changing clothing fashions (smaller swimsuits etc. so more skin on display)

To take a different example, lots of people now honestly enjoy rough sex with choking etc. Sure, fine, they enjoy it. But why has the number of people suddenly risen? Surely because people have seen it in porn etc.

I'm not saying women should or shouldn't remove body hair. Each to their own. All I'm saying is that we have been influenced by various factors, including porn.

100 years ago? Yes, many were indeed removing it. Regarding the western world, Gillette released the first razor for women in 1914. The removal of body hair became more widespread in tandem with hemlines becoming shorter. 1960s/1970s feminists embraced body hair in response to the societal expectation that it be removed.

Funnily enough, class also played a part, as it ever does. During the Renaissance pubic hair removal was common amongst prostitutes as well as the middle and upper classes. Arsenic and lye were used for this purpose.

Body hair has always alternately increased and waned in popularity. Porn has of course had an impact, but much like all media it doesn’t just shape trends but also reflects them. The interplay between influencer/influenced is nuanced.

I remove mine. Have I subconsciously been influenced by porn? Probably. Do I care? Has acknowledging this ever made me want to keep it? No and no. I prefer removing it, so I do. It’s not something that’s ever made me feel either empowered or subjugated tbh.

You make a good point and yes that would be one aspect of it, but there are also other factors, throughout history people have always tried to enhance their bodies in many ways, In the queen Elizabeth 1st era didn't some used to shave their eyebrows off and then shave their hairline back to give themselves bigger foreheads because they thought that was beautiful or something like that, there was also corsets etc.

I think eventually pretty much everything was going to be experimented on and it wouldn't make sense to assume that pubic hair would be the one thing that wouldn't ever be touched unless there was some very strong negative influence impacting it.

Yes exactly, as a collective we've been influenced by various factors, including porn but I know I had my sexual preferences from a young age before I'd even seen porn, but I don't want to say much further about that on this thread due to the disgusting attacks I've already had to put up with!

My point being, that despite the influences of porn or whatever it is we are still people with diverse interests and our own personalities and so on, it's far too black and white for people to look at women who have removed their pubic hair and just start ranting and raving about how they want to look like little girls and they're doing it for the porn-sick men and so on.

People can try something and genuinely prefer it, and that's where the genuine preference comes from, they see it, they're intrigued, they try it, they like it, other people try it and hate it and decide it's not for them. So the preference often comes from experimenting with things.

Thank you 😊

He sounds very immature, which would completely put me off.

Good post, it seems like people think that there wouldn't be any kind of common kinks or sexual trends without porn.

James Joyce wrote absolutely filthy letters to his wife, if someone posted on here today that their husband had said some of the stuff he had said then people would have told her to LTB. Actually made me feel sick to read them 🤢but people are into all sorts of different things and always will be, maybe his wife loved them 😅

People discussed kinks etc long before porn, human sexuality has long been highly varied and imaginative even before porn, porn is definitely not without a lot of problems and also causes problems, but even without porn many people would be engaging in the things that people say 'came from porn'.

Likewise with anything like body hair etc, this notion that if it wasn't for porn then pubic hair would never have been touched is just that, a notion.

This is comical arrogance.

You're just words on a forum, mate. No one asked or is interested in reading your bragging and irrelevant potted autobiography that may or may not be true.

I am thinking of young people who view pornography (i.e. rape and sexual assault for sale on the internet) where women are portrayed as totally hairless. Women are gaslit into shaving legs, underarms, any facial hair and now the pubic area and it seems their arms. This is ridiculous and unnecessary but fuels pornographic fantasies and the cosmetic industry. Women are not dolls but people. And there are, of course, ecological aspects to the pornification of women and the cosmetic industry - ecological damage, damage to animals (still used in testing cosmetics), damage to our own bodies by chemicals.

What would you do to improve the situation Esther?

One person's normalised is another person's weird kink! Being 'mainstream' is irrelevant

It is sex, oral SEX. It's not a 'base', it is an act of sex. Things like this are worrying due to the expectation of the receiving party and them probably downgrading it to a base and not sex.

Who is gaslighting women? Why don’t you think women have agency?

And what does any of this have to do with the point I was making? The bodies of adult women, even without body hair, look nothing like pre-pubescent children.

It's the enforcement of stereotypes. We learn to take up little space, to conform to modes of femininity, to the male gaze. That's what I mean by gaslighting, and no, in many things about appearance and behaviour women don't have agency, they are following social norms that put them in second place and as objects of desire to men. We don't have to do this to ourselves but when we stop we are ugly, going to far with feminism etc.

So what would your solution be? That women are forced to conform to a different ideal - one that you feel more acceptable?

That they be themselves. That if they don't want to shave or dress sexily they don't need to and if they do they can. That they live life in freedom from stereotypes. That men stop watching porn and we get rid of 'sex positivity' which just means women doing all the things men like whether they really like them/consent to them or not. That women become the equal of men by acknowledging our biology and our needs, rather than men's.

@Grammarnut - Sex positivity means women doing in things for themselves. That includes removing their body hair if they choose to. It also means enjoying our own sexuality without suffering from slut shaming and being told that “naice” girls don’t.

But loads of women are themselves. Lots of women don’t shave or wear make up or any of the other things that are stereotypically feminine etc. I’m not sure what you mean by ‘sex positivity’. Are women not supposed to like sex?

Sex positivity isn't anything to do with enjoying sex afaik - it's about saying that sex work is work, including pornography, which it is ok for anyone to watch, and that we should treat sex as transactional, when sex is connecting, it's meant by our evolution to bond us to a partner in order to raise children - that sex has just become a recreational activity that can take place with anyone is one reason people are so unhappy.

Hmmm. I agree about pornography and sex work I think but why shouldn’t sex be recreational? I’ve had sex with people I’ve had no connection with - it was just fun.