To find it almost impossible to move from being friendly with people to being friends?

[RessicaJabbit]

So, I always feel like people are friendly with me, but we're not friends.

They'll stop and chat etc at school drop off, around village, at work etc and all that

It's really hard when there's people you know only met a few months ago or whatever,and they're merrily chatting about how they had great fun at x place together last night, or the group of colleagues all went to a bar the other night, mums at the school,who happily discuss going for a coffee after drop off in front of me.

I have tried inviting people to events/pub/walks whatever, with kids in tow if they want a distraction etc but generally they don't respond or come along. I have done this in the Year 1 group chat, face to face etc. other people invite the larger group,and we go along and then discover that oh so and so are going to their house after to play etc.

It makes me a bit sad, my SIL for example, has a whole host of friends they're always going over each others, on holidays, days out etc. but if we invite them out or over, they're always busy etc. a new colleague joined in October and already is invited out on nights out etc...

Now yes, I get it... the problem must be me ... But I don't know what it is that makes me not really have friends.

@RessicaJabbit It sounds like you may possibly be laying it on a bit thick with the board game invitations.

If I have read this right you asked no fewer than three times in a fairly short space of time. Its possible you made them feel a bit cornered?

People with kids and jobs are busy and tired and often don’t have time or bandwidth to do unscheduled stuff.

Sometimes it is good to suggest something and just let it percolate a bit… let them think about it and come back to you. If you hassle people to commit immediately they may feel a bit pressured which is a turn off.

I think you need to remove the expectation from these invitations. Make people feel its an exciting option rather than an obligation.

I can struggle with this too, I relate to a lot of what you say. I’m gradually honing the friend-making process I feel, but also what PP said about the concentric circles of friendship has been a lightbulb for me! I spose it’s fair enough. I need more people in that inner circle and the problem is that everyone else’s inner circle must be full!

With your example of people talking about a meet up in front of you, I would say something like ‘oh that sounds lovely! I’d love to do that/I’ll have to check it out/we should go together next time’ while also actively listening and asking them about it and seeming interested. I find sometimes people just don’t realise you might have been interested - particularly if you’re silent when they mention it!

Maybe.

To be fair the second playdate was over a month after the one at theirs. It's not like I was bombarding them with multiple invites over a short few days.
I sent the game group information a few days later, in case they were interested. But I don't do that anymore, I just assume people will ask if they're interested.

That's just one example.

I do. 😭

The other month there was a thing on at the local theatre, is been chatting about it and some colleagues were chatting saying it sounded like fun etc. I said something along the lines of "oh, great, maybe we could all go together? " And they nodded along. And I mentioned it maybe a week later and said "oh, so shall we go to event next Saturday?. I don't mind getting tickets etc"

They'd all booked already for the Friday... 😔

So they all wanted to go to the same event, they knew I wanted to go too .. they had clearly invited people and spoken about it amongst themselves and sorted it all out.

They all went for drinks and the event on the Friday.

This is the kind of thing that happens all the time! I just get overlooked/ignored... Nobody ever seems to invite men anywhere, never wants to go with me...

That’s really disheartening. Short of pulling your phone out there and then and booking on the spot (I do that!) I’m not sure what else to suggest!

I suppose there is an aspect of luck and random influences, but that won't explain the pattern you observe.

People generally have their lifes and not everyone has a friendship slot open at each moment. Or, even if they would have, it is hard to decide that "now" is the moment to do it, when one didn't prioritise it up to now and can easily postpone it once again.

I suppose the inviting a new comer situation is easier, because it is a well defined opportunity to do something nice.

I've read somewhere that one way of building a connection is based on helping someone (or better phrased, letting someone help you), because it allows the helping party to feel good about themselves while doing something connected with you. And you maybe doesn't look as someone who needs help - someone to introduce you, someone to help you navigate, ...

If it feels relevant, you can try asking someone for help (with something reasonable) and observe how the dynamics work in that case.

It’s hard and lonely
I’ve moved cities several times in the last year knowing nobody. Just keep turning up, keep being you, don’t be scared to share something of your inner world. A lot of people don’t, and then there’s nothing ‘to grab onto’ I would bet that none of these people know you feel like this because you probably present as quite robust …

I think you need to remove the expectation OP. You seem subconsciously to expect people to take you up on everything you invite them to. Then when they don’t you are probably subconsciously signaling your disappointment to them.

You can’t possibly know why some people organise a theatre trip. It may be an existing friendship group. It may be totally random. You will never know. But at some level you seem to expect to be the social “driver” of these things. I suspect you show frustration when they indicate that they have already made plans and that makes them feel uncomfortable.

I come back to the point about lowering your expectations and thus lowering the pressure on everyone.

I do think counselling would help. You are stuck in a negative feedback loop which you need help breaking out of.

I don't expect to the the driver.

I just am told if you want people to join you, invite them places. Otherwise how can they possibly know you want to go? Share your interests...join clubs... But when I do I, people are friendly and it never moves beyond that...

But I also don't get invited to places or events, even when I've said directly is like to go to x. People around me get invited. I don't.

I'm told ...don't be the driver..let it be organic... They don't owe you friendship, they already have friends... Be persistent, but not too persistent. Be patient, but also don't waste time waiting around for people etc

So I can't win it seems.

I don't know what it is about me. :(

I don't think the OP cares about being the driver, I suppose she would gladly join and tag along, but based on the previous experience she doesn't expect the invitation to come, so she is trying to create the opportunity for herself by being proactive.

How would the lowering of expectations work? If she does nothing, she is not included. The advice would be to try to be more active, show interest, suggest things. When she does it, she is not included once again, the advice is to scale down and "lower the pressure".

It sounds to me that the advice effectively says to get used to being overlooked.

This is a good point. The other thing I've noticed is that it's often about trying to befriend an aspirational group that you want to be part of. So people are upset because the 'clique' of mums they see as the 'best' group are not welcoming, while overlooking the less socially prominent people who may be open to friendship. Unfortunately people with an existing group of friends living full and active social lives often don't have space for newcomers, so it's often better to create your own group from others outside of it.

I've witnessed this my entire life. I'd start a night school class, or hobby group with a friend of mine and within hours she'd be swapping numbers of arranging coffee meet ups with others and I'd be standing at the sidelines, scratching my head and wondering how did that happen?! I'm always pleasant and smiley, but I obviously don't give out the same friendly vibes as she did. I think it comes down to an inner confidence, that firm belief that you are likeable and good company; something I've always lacked despite my ability to put on a mask and take an interest in others. People seem to sniff it out.

IMO the missing ingredient is time. Keep at it some will eventually become friends but it doesn't happen overnight. Keep showing up

I think this comes back in part to the same misunderstanding that a pp noted -- that people who struggle with friendships seem to often see 'other people' as an undifferentiated mass of potentially befriendable people, rather than as individuals or individual groups you might be specifically drawn to. Why do you like someone specifically? Why that person rather than the other people you met at the same time? And, conversely, why might someone want to see more of you, rather than any of the other new people he/she met at the same event?

'Pleasant and smiley' wouldn't do it for me, for instance. What I look out for in a situation where I'm meeting new people is 'Are you interesting to talk to? Would I like to talk to you again? Am I interested enough by you to potentially want to see you outside of the specific environment in which we've met?' (Obviously even when I decide that the answer to this is yes, the other person/people may not feel the same way, and that's fine, obviously.)

But the other important point is the one you've put your finger on yourself. If you don't think you're interesting, likeable and good company, why would you expect other people not to take you at your word? It's no one else's job to excavate down to your possible hidden inner fabulousness if the vibe you're giving off is 'Nothing to see here'!

@FourIsNewSix

It sounds to me that the advice effectively says to get used to being overlooked.

Not quite. But it is get used to not expecting things to happen just because you have done something. Remove the negative energy that comes from the constant cycle of disappointed expectations.

The key to social success is confidence and comfort with yourself. The OP isn’t confident in herself and she is overthinking and over-engineering things. And people are reacting to this.

The only real way to change this is to change mindset which ultimately I think can only come from counselling, which is why I keep banging on about it.

It doesn’t really matter what the OP does or doesn’t do. Its how she chooses to interpret the reactions she gets from others which I think is holding her back.

Op I don't have any words of advice sorry, but just wanted to post in solidarity! I have the same issue, I make 'acquaintances' , think they're developing into friendships but then find out that lots of things are going on without me that I'm not part of, and I don't know how/why that's happened.
I found out a few years ago that I'm autistic, and it is a common experience. It isn't necessarily that we're deliberately excluded (in a bullying type way) but more that we're overlooked, or assumed to be busy or not interested. I have been told by people that I give off very 'independent' or even standoff-ish vibes when I think I'm being friendly and open!

For me personally making friends/inviting people to things 1:1 seems to work better. Also going to clubs/hobbies that attract introverts or are a more intense interest (eg martial arts rather than spin class)

I find the idea people struggling looking for friends see groups of potential friends as a homogenous mass really insulting. We have our preferences, we will pick and choose who works for us but we also don’t discriminate in who we approach in the early days. We’re so aware of how it feels to be left out that we don’t want to be responsible for others feeling that way by being inclusive. That such an approach is a turn off for some means they’re not people i’d ever want to be friends with in the first place. That being inclusive or not as selective as others makes someone undesirable is an indictment on society and how little we value difference others. Do better!

Not at all. I do get what you mean and I’m really trying to reflect lately. It’s hard as I’ve been doing this my whole life but I want to try and break the habit. I can see how I probably come across in the ways you listed and why that would put people off.

It sounds stupid but I don’t think I ever considered how it could be perceived negatively to others. I thought of it as something that only affected me (eg in that I’d end up in ridiculous situations because I couldn’t say no).

Well, decide whether you want to make actual friends or or run an inclusivity group where everyone has to be included in everything all of the time, regardless of whether or not you actually like them.

It has nothing to do with 'difference'. We all like people who are different to us in all kinds of ways. But some differences will be interesting to an individual meeting new people, and others won't.

I suppose this may explain how so many Mners seem to end up in friendship groups that contain significant numbers of people they appear to dislike, but still group under the rubric of 'friends'.

maybe indoors give off a "I'm fine as I am" vibe. Like together/organised etc and maybe people just assume I don't want or need the company

And then maybe on top of that I'm not interesting enough to be out with, never going to be the life and soul of the party kinda person, just nice enough to chat to.

Oh well, I'm doomed 😂

@Pawridge

It sounds stupid but I don’t think I ever considered how it could be perceived negatively to others.

It doesn’t sound stupid at all. Most women are socialised to be people pleasers from a young age and taught that they have to put other people’s needs before their own. It’s actually incredibly normal and very common for it to take a long time to unwind that bias.

I am a recovering people pleaser and it has taken me decades to work out that people pleasing not only holds me back but it’s often an irritant to others.

Just to be clear, I am actually pleased that people have made good friends from the group I started. There's a tendancy for the demographic (basically "slightly nerdy guys") to be a bit excluded. So it's great to hear that they make friends. A few times a couple of people have thanked me privately saying it's the first time they've had friends. One couple were very introverted and made some good friends that they spend time with doing their hobby and other stuff. Which is marvellous and partly why the group was formed :)

I’m very similar OP, and AuDHD. I’m mid forties and have one good friend from childhood, and other than that I’ve either drifted away from friends or consciously decided to not be friends with them anymore for various reasons. It used to bother me but I can honestly say I’ve made my peace with it, I have my DP, my DC, my extended family, people I chat to at my hobby, and people I meet through work who I wouldn’t call friends but we chat. So I don’t really feel lonely, even though I’m quite limited if I wanted to call someone up for a chat or go out for a day with someone.

I do think since social media has been a thing it’s been harder to maintain friendships. Before then, I’d often phone people or they’d phone me for a chat, so even if you weren’t seeing each other you still had that personal contact. That doesn’t happen these days, and I think social media is the cause of it. A status update or a quick online message isn’t the same as a phone call.

It actually sounds fine and positive OP. Its all about the way you choose to see it and you need to reframe this.

Can you relax in company, OP? Can you make fun of your shortcomings and share a laugh with these people. I find self-deprecating humour can endear myself to others.
Have you checked what your resting face looks like? Do you lend much to conversations?