To think Toby Carvery is working class ?

[JoanneTeresa]

I went this week and was looking around at the likely demographic

There are levels of privelege.

The privilege that traditional middle class people have is education & connections. The son of a plumber earning £80k might be financially well off but will have come from a family where no-one went to university, their parents don't know how to navigate the system, maybe the child has SEN and doesn't know how to advocate at school or medically. Maybe education isn't valued or access to the arts is denied. They have no cultural capital.

Compare that with my kids who although came from a family with the same income have two parents who went to university, knew what to say and do to professionals in the system when SEN was suspected. We thought nothing of paying for piano lessons and dance lessons instead of other things and we were able to advice with university applications, in fact we actually led them to believe that uni was an option. They had those advantages.

This is a great post but I feel the need to warn you it’s going to be picked apart by posters who can’t understand it

That's a good point about cultural capital being as important as financials.

I was brought up in poverty but with lots of cultural capital because my parents were lapsed middle class kids.

So in your view would I have grown up middle class despite being poor? We went to theatre, read classic literature, went to uni, and had that cultural input as parents were very well brought up (well)

So cultural capital - huge
financial - barely anything

I'd have put myself as working class my entire life but this is an interesting aspect.

This is SO ironic!

So I should feel guilty and be lectured on my middle class privilege because I’m being destroyed every month by my mortgage I should be lectured by someone who’s rent is probably half my mortgage and earns four times my wage 😂ffs

Having been to the Wanstead one a few times, I always feel the tables need a really good clean.

Who is making you feel guilty and lectured for your middle class privilege? You keep saying it, yet no one has done it on this post.

If you’re talking about some random conversation from the past why do you keep bringing it up in a different context?

So you don’t think middle class are more “privileged “ than working class? You deny thinking that and implying it even though it’s pretty obvious you do and is always mentioned on this site doesn’t matter it’s a different thread talking about the deeper meaning is more interesting than bs about Toby Carvery

if you don’t live off capital - investments, property- you’re working class. You need to work to survive. The clue is in the name.

If you need to work but have a background of what is often described as ‘cultural capital’ (books, university, etc), and/or your income is very large, then you might be described as being middle/upper working class. But it’s pretty irrelevant.

The obsession with drawing imaginary class distinctions is a bullshit delusion promoted by the 1% - to stop the rest of us notice we’re all in the same leaking boat & getting together to change things.

I don’t think anyone should feel guilty about privilege. I think they should recognise it and use it positively. I also think privilege is a more
sophisticated concept than paying a mortgage or earning £50k or not.

you don’t strike me as someone who has middle class privilege, no.

100% agree.

i grew up in poverty in a family who were middle class in their home country but a series of unfortunate events led to a catastrophic reduction in circumstances.

However I was exposed to literature, art, classical music and theatre - I played the piano, acted, danced etc.

I was incongruously ‘well spoken’ given the South London council estate I grew up on and have confused people over the years as the assumptions made about me are often incorrect - I meet people who expect me to be a ‘snob’ (absolutely am not) and others who think they can be patronising or ‘educate’ me when my knowledge exceeds theirs.

It does what it says on the tin……
if you want posh…..then go posh.
next.

So now we’ve established that middle class doesn’t mean rich. And if a plumber really earns 100k and lives in a council house he’s way better off than a middle class family on 30k with a mortgage to pay then that begs the question what is the POINT in those people (not you but perhaps someone else who likes talking about how working class they are and how middle class have it easycan explain) going on about how they’re working class? Is it just to show off their dad or grandad had a manly job? Is it mating call for other people who like feeling sorry for themselves when they haven’t actually got any real problems?

And obviously the hobbies/intrests stuff is bullshit me and you both agree so is it just how “manly” daddy’s job was?

Oh are you talking about Toby Carvery? I thought we had travelled to an alternative universe.

I was also thinking that for some people TC will be a treat, a celebration even whereas for others it will be a "cheap" can't be arsed to cook trip. Nothing to do with class but plenty to do with money.

No one, apart from you and usernumbers, thinks class is related to income, so there was nothing to establish there.

Why do you think they’re showing off? You seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder about this. Why can’t people talk about their background or upbringing without “going on”?!

I’m sorry you know people who are so dull they continuously talk about their grandfathers job but it’s worth pointing out you’ve accused me of the same on this thread when I did nothing of the sort so maybe you’re an unreliable narrator?

So is it a mixture of cultural and financial capital, and income in your view?

I think most people probably could tell you 5 things about themselves that would make you think they were working class and 5 things about themselves that would make you think they were middle class. I's all very blurry IMO.

That said, if you've got supportive family that value education and cultural capital, have been to university and worked in professional jobs it's definitely an advantage.

I don’t know anyone in real life who talks about what class they are only on here. I don’t have a chip on my shoulder if they can go on about their grandfather’s job while telling middle class people we’re “privileged “ even though they earn twice as much money why can’t I point out it’s a pile of horse shit?

the hobbies/intrests stuff is funny on here I’ve been called middle class for having books in my house. Lower class for having a baby at 16 and now working class for liking Toby Carvery. Obviously everyone likes different things and has different things going on throughout their life how do you pigeon hole that?

so if you say it’s not income and me and you both agree it’s not hobbies then what is it? Just whether you work in a trade or an office? If so why does it even matter when there’s such a variation in salaries there with like you say some builders apparently earning 100k? What’s the point in all the threads? Why do working class people on here keep saying they need affirmative action even though some builders are apparently way wealthier than your average middle classer?

Your average builder isn't earning £100k to be fair. Ones like my dad who after years of being on the tools set up their own business and now employ other people will of course. I recon the average person on our payroll earns between £40-50K with managers earning more.

Cultural and finance capital (not income) but also background, culture, family history, location, access to diversity, access to power, your job/ source of income, the people you surround yourself with and align yourself to, life experience- many many things make you who you are.

It wasn’t even builders I mentioned it was bricklayers 😂 and yes my organisation is paying the equivalent of that (up to £1k per day) in cold spots in the uk.

And?

I consider myself middle class and go there sometimes. It's a good value, nice carvery.

This is very vague and what is meant by “access to diversity “ ? Not being sarcastic genuinely curious about how you define it now?

You are being overcharged then. We charge £40 plus VAT per hour and for that the worker will be earning approx half of that.

Please answer a couple of these questions bambam it took me ages to type that out haha