To think Toby Carvery is working class ?

[JoanneTeresa]

I went this week and was looking around at the likely demographic

To answer the question in the OP, yes of course it is. I don't know how anyone thinks otherwise!

Are people aware of their "class" if not at extremes.

I'm not entirely sure where I fit.
Was brought up on a Scottish island where none of that mattered.

It certainly is a place where quantity is valued over quality, no culinary expert is going to go there and no one goes their thinking it is a five star meal out

You don't have to have an enormous plateful, you serve yourself according to how much you expect you want to eat. The amount I take is usually less than what you're served if you order from the menu at any other comparably priced pub chain and at least as well cooked. They quality of the cooking varies, some are better than others, I suppose it depends on the individual staffing.

Of course it's not five star food, it doesn't claim to be. But I'd rather have roast meat, veg and a bit of gravy than pie/sausage/steak/burger and chips any day of the week whether it's from a Beefeater or a naice independent gastropub at three times the price.

Apparently you’re middle class if you have books in your house. Apparently liking football makes you working class. Apparently kids in 30s is middle and 20s is working (I had my first at 16 and I’m middle though lol). Then it depends if you prefer butlins or centre parks.
If you’re a millionaire but your grandpa worked in a factory you have permission to wallow in self pity about how working class you are.
and now Toby Carvery!
All kind of complicated

It is not Michelin Star and it isn't aiming to be. Depending on income (amongst other things) some people will see it as an acceptable midweek meal with the kids that is healthier than a Macdonald's some will see it as a reasonably priced Sunday lunch without the work, some will see it as a rate treat and some wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. I would take the grandkids as they can choose the veg they will eat but I wouldn't choose it for a night out with friends. Where does this put meet in this strange Toby hierarchy and does it matter 🤔🤣🤣🤣

Toby Carvery is genuinely better than some more upmarket carveries I’ve been to where the carrots were coated in some weird sticky sauce and the meat was super dry and you paid three times as much for the honour

But again- none of these things are true.

read a book on the class system 😂

Isn't this just social mobility?

Your parents may have been working class and you grew up working class, but I think you are actually middle class at this point, and I've come across many proposed indicators, including that fun grid one that The Guardian did about 10 years ago, but I think it comes down to income.

There are distinct issues faced and things enjoyed by the 4 classes.

Middle face the squeeze of no help and high costs
Out of work are in absolute poverty
Working class are on UC and probably doing the best given all the help
Upper are of course independently wealthy

It used to be based on profession (blue/white collar) but this doesn't work now given the cost of living and stagnant wages and also quality of life for teachers or nurses, which are professions, but poorly paid and overworked.

I also think indicators such as what content you consume or what activities you enjoy are obsolete because the digital age has brought people into contact with things they never would have had in the past, and would have been restricted due to class. Things like theatre are a lot more accessible to all now, for instance. And you might scroll to a TikTok about Radio4 rather than grow up listening to it.

Not my cup of tea I find them all (Toby, Harvesters, Brewers Fayre, Wetherspoons etc) all over priced for the quality of food you get.
I can cook a roast way cheaper then the cost for a family of 4.

If we go out for dinner or lunch we tend to find a local independent place usually works out the same or cheaper (our area does lumch deals), better food and is putting into the local economy more.

I was being sarcastic there I actually agree with you that none of those things matter. Just examples of things I’ve read on mn. I once read a book by mr Karl Marx himself (not a commie just curious) it was very outdated and boring. If you don’t think it’s based on income but you also don’t think it’s the above hobbies/intrests/life choices then what exactly does it mean to you? Is it just a vibe? Like one of the 72 genders gender fluid people think you can identify as?

The quality of food and the cooking there isn't great. It's obvious really for the price. The price won't support either expensive ingredients, or top quality people to cook them.

If a person does't appreciate that then they either don't know what good food tastes like or don't care.

I am not a huge food snob but have been lucky enough to experience plenty of decent food on someone elses budget. I know what good food tastes like. There are plenty of people around who haven't for example see the ones on previous threads that think Miller and Carter serve crap steak (they don't).

If the food isn't great then what is the motivation to go there. Maybe because a) it's cheap b) they don't care about the quality of it or c) there's a lot of it.

Otherwise they are wasting their time getting a sub optimal experience.

I can count on one hand how many tim a I have been to a Toby Carvery (not my choice) because I like to eat things I can't cook myself, but the last time I went I had a beautiful portion of beef and I do think the larger the beef joint the nicer the meat.
Not sure if I am talking about the same place as a PP but our nearest is in a very expensive area, in fact it's next to a Premier Inn which is next to a private hospital and I imagine that's part of its clientele.

@user793847984375948 it's only social mobility if you believe that factors such as education and interests like Radio 4 or reading books are middle class rather than working class, so back to the offensive stereotypes.

In fact, I'm warming to the idea that there are two classes, working class and upper class/independently wealthy. Because it means we can put aside the divide between working and middle class, the latter seemingly having a lot to say about the working classes, that are based on no more than stereotypes. Plus the 'squeezed middle' are usually only in that position because they've made expensive choices that trip them up if CoL or lost income comes into play.

So we're all working class unless due to age or accumulated assets, we become independently wealthy, which I'm well on the way to becoming due to historical pension entitlements meaning I soon won't need to work for a living, my working class background here being an advantage, because I've not fallen into a middle class big house expensive lifestyle that moves the goalpost of financial independence much further away.

It’s a place that caters for those with less money. I have relatives who don’t have much money but really hate it when people offer to pay for them. We regularly go to a Toby Carvery when we meet - their choice, not somewhere I’d choose - and it’s perfectly adequate. No need to be snobby.

I'd kill for a Toby to open locally.
I live in a rather nice village in norfolk

Lean meat and fresh vegetables ? But surely the working class only eat fried chicken 🙄🙄

Well no but those on mumsnet always put income and class together. Along with if you went to uni then you are MC. Strange as my graduate son is still working class

So true.

me and my parent went to uni but I grew up in a high rise block with a parent on benefits. went to a crap state school but my parent listened to radio 4 and now owns a home outright. i'm self-employed but socially housed.

I'm working class and I think it is tied to income. That's what makes our lives different.

Hmm what about the WC who don't get any benefits, myself included

It is op, and? I'm middle class and often pop in after a hard day's wok. I like it too......

Nah - MN is quite clear that it’s the more intellectual pursuits such as theatre and rooms full of dusty books that make people middle class. Oh and no grey decor to be seen in their houses. An inherited pile and an old land rover makes you upper or upper-middle. Focusing on income is very common. And I don’t mean common in a polite way.

(And in case my sarcasm isn’t clear this is not my view).

So what class do you consider yourself?

I have three postgraduate degrees. I’d class myself as ‘educated WC’. My education hasn’t magically removed the experience of an impoverished childhood, parents who left school at 12 and worked all their lives in low-paid manual jobs, and extended family who worked as binmen, street sweepers, cleaners etc.

I get your point. But your kids may well grow up middle class