Upset by nursery comments about 3yo diet

[takethesebrokenwingsandlearntofly]

Am I being unreasonable to be upset? DS 3yo has recently been very fussy. I have an older 7yo DS who has ASD, ADHD and PDA and we have had a terrible year with him out of school for 12 months. I've been fire fighting on every front and I'm so worried I've let my youngest down.

DS has always gone to a child minder but very recently started at a new nursery.

Nursery have said they don't think DS lunches are healthy and I feel so guilty. He is really fussy, has been for 6 months or so. I'm doing my best but he refuses so much food so I've settled on giving him what he will eat.

I usually pack the following:

Half a can of spaghetti hoops (he eats them at room temp)
White roll filled with cream cheese or hummus.
Small yoghurt
Sliced cucumber and or halved grapes
One banana

Is that so bad?

Sometimes I mix it up with an organix bar as he likes these.

For dinner he will only eat toast or a small pizza or cheese pasta. I always give him peas / sweetcorn / cucumber or broccoli with dinner he usually eats some veg but rarely eats it all. He will outright refuse any meal other than these.

I always give him fruit after dinner - orange / mango / watermelon / strawberries - sometimes he eats it sometimes not.

He will eat yoghurts - hundreds if I let him.

He has never eaten meat except the occasional chicken nugget.

Ive tried every variation of eggs and he won't eat them.

Sometimes he will have wheatabix for breakfast or a croissant or dry cereal. He will eat toast with just butter.

He also still has a bottle at bedtime and in the morning, which I know needs to stop but I'm worried he will get even less if I stop it.

Older DS has many issues but generally has always been a good eater and had a variety of foods, often eats what I eat and always has plenty of fruits and veg.

I feel judged and like a massive failure after comments from nursery.

I have a likely autistic 7 yr old and a very neurotypical seeming 4 yr old in every way, but her current food issues are maddening. We've just had an issue with nursery who used to happily make her an alternative lunch now only offering a sandwich on brown bread which she won't eat and 2 nights she was up crying because she'd been hungry all day and embarrassed to say. Nursery have said we can send a packed lunch and my plan is ham sandwich on white bread, cheese in cream crackers (because she won't eat the bread she'll pick the ham out) fruit and yoghurt. They've sent us the menu because there are some hot lunches they do that she likes. So she likes the baked potato, beans and cheese day, she likes the chilli and she likes the macaroni cheese. She goes 3 days a week and some of the lunches she used to love but they changed to make healthier (and they ARE healthier, brown bread, extra veg in what was previously a very plain tomato and cheese pasta, spinach in the curry but she now won't eat meals because they're not what she used to eat) at home her reliable meals are chilli, sausages and mash, baked potatoes with beans and cheese and fishcakes with peas and sweetcorn and scrambled egg. so she's not the WORST eater. She'll only eat pasta if it's macaroni cheese and only eat rice if it's egg fried ri there are days she wille at nothing for us but cream crackers and cups of milk though. My eldest had a lot of food issues at 4. He's still particular and not a fan of meat but eats enough variety to give him a fairly balanced diet so I live in hope she comes out the other side.

I have a sister who until she was 18 ate NOTHING but chicken, potatoes, white bread and pasta. There was period as a young child where I ate toast, scrambled egg and bananas and nothing else. As an adult I like 99% of food but am still undeniably fussy about some things.

My husband has never been fussy, doesn't get it and hates when he cooks something lovely and they won't try it.

Hey I’m a childminder. From September this year early years settings’ (including childminders’) nutrition guidelines have had a complete overhaul. You can look it up on government website. They have in my opinion gone a bit far because as soon as you go to primary school (inc school nurseries!) you get puddings and all sorts. The guidance is fine for me as I cook most meals from scratch for my toddlers and onus is all on me. What I have had to change is that instead of a tiny malted milk biscuit at snack time with fruit I’ve had to change it to rice cake. They basically want no sugar that isn’t fruit sugar. Absolutely no ultra processed food. No white bread. Only allowed natural or Greek yogurt - no flavoured yogurts etc. We have been told that we need very good reason not to follow this guidance and we have been told to give parents nutritional advice about packed lunches that contain food that is not in line with guidance. Unfortunately this means for your nursery if they were inspected by Ofsted and saw a load of “unhealthy” packed lunches they would mark the nursery down. They will ask us and ask to see comms with parents on this. This doesn’t just have implications on getting a good report but also on our ability to offer funding. Although I’m a massive advocate for healthy eating, I think it’s gone a bit far as I don’t really want to be telling parents how to feed their child. This is why I strongly advise my cohort to take and pay for my lunches. I have a really strict packed lunch policy.

Indeed. Ofsted and nurseries should understand that pre-schoolers have not read that memo.

I was about to say this. Our nursery now doesn’t allow flavoured yoghurts, crisps, flavoured rice cakes etc in with packed lunches. They agree it’s a massive overkill but they basically can’t let them eat anything with added sugar! I suspect it’s more down to that, than your actual lunch so I wouldn’t take it personally (I got asked not to put 1/4 pack Pom bears and one of those baby collective yoghurts in, despite the rest of her lunch being carrots, cucumber, egg, cubes of cheese, pepper and fruit as those didn’t meet the guidelines).

I love eating spaghetti hoops cold out of the can! If others don't then that's up to them but there's nothing wrong with it. I think your DS' lunch is good considering he is picky - my own DS at a similar age didn't eat as much variety as yours does - he's now 7 & eats a varied balanced diet so its done him no long term harm

I was also going to state the new nutritional guidance for early years - i am surprised your nursery haven't told you that this is why they are being so strict

It's definitely the yogurt and spaghetti hoops

Nurseries are regulated by the government and Ofsted and have to follow their guidelines. This includes healthy eating and discussing it with parents.

We don’t really have packed lunches where I am but our cook has to spend a lot of time balancing weekly menus and making sure salt/sugar levels are monitored etc. she cooks the main meal from scratch each day. I believe ofsted checked this on their inspection.

So, that will be why your nursery staff will have an opinion on what your child has. They’re not just being nosy.

Oh I was expecting you to say crisps, chocolate, croissants etc
the food is perfectly fine. If they don’t like it, well then it’s lucky it’s not for them. It really isn’t so bad. The only thing that I raised an eyebrow at is the spaghetti hoops. How do you get healthier than fruit/veg/yoghurt/bread?!??? Why are these deemed as unhealthy all of a sudden??

It’s tricky isn’t it. I have a child with ASD and a very limited diet. All medical advice is just calories in him, nursery are very understanding but do have to show they are trying to ensure a healthy diet. It’s a bit of a farce really, as they know why it’s limited and know we know what an ideal diet looks like but when an child had eating issues Pressuring them is the worst thing to do. Understanding around this is improving but there is a long way you can go.

There should be an exception to the BS "healthy eating" mania for kids with additional needs. I have such strong feelings about this because I saw my DS's lunches (that I was advised to let him try to get him eating and socialising with others) being ruined by having things that he didn't like mixed in and forced on him. When I'd got him to a point where he would try plain pasta for example that was a major victory for us. He didn't need people undoing years of hard work by adding sauce because it's "unhealthy" plain. No lunch at all and further food refusal is worse which was of course the result. Packed lunch was our only option in the end and thank goodness these were the parents' choice then. He'd have gone hungry under the current control freakery.

I don’t see the issue with this. (but I am a mother of ND kids so my viewpoint may be different!!

Tell nursery to take their nose out.

You have stuff to deal with. Making sure your child eats is the most important thing.

the fact it is the same every day is probably comforting to him especially as he has changed setting.

Firztvof all, fed is best.
However, it is a pretty unhealthy lunch. Canned spaghetti hoops are often very high in salt and sugar - which version are you using? the regular one is more a dessert than a meal.
The white roll is also free of nutrients, could you get half/half ones?
Is the yoghurt a kids one /one with high sugar?

White bread is a choking risk and not advised for children, spag hoops are ultra processed and too high in salt, yogurt needs to be plain as flavoured are too high in sugar, so yes they are following government guidelines. Ask they to give you the leaflet which explains suitable items for packed lunches. They will keep telling you as it’s the rules for all early years settings in the UK.

It sounds completely fine to me.

We ended up referred to a dietician who suggested essentially what I think is now known as division of responsibility. I gave him potato waffles and a tiny helping on a separate plate of something very similar I think it was alpha bites or something like that. Tiny helping and no drama, either they eat it or not. No cajoling or nagging, just a straightforward "I made some alphabites today, I'll put some on the table if you want to see them". Hopefully see evolves to try. If it works after a few tries keep at it until you have two reliable foods. Then maybe try chips. The idea is that the transition is very gradual. In our case we gradually made it to frozen roasties and then homemade. Diet purists will throw up their hands in horror but McDonalds fries and happy meal toys led to chicken nuggets which gradually led to fishfingers and onto non battered chicken. This is a long long haul taking months or even years, it is not a quick fix. It involves "unhealthy" options - chocolate powder to get milk in for example. It involves creativity - make a food diorama with chicken dinosaurs, call food different names (DS would not eat omelette at first but if I added a dash of soy sauce and called it Chinese pancake he was fine?), anything at all to maintain interest as long as there is no pressure. I think if a child is truly a difficult eater it is not spoiling, pandering or whatever to do what it takes to get them to eat. Feel no guilt and serve what they will eat while you gradually work on expanding the range. And tell anyone commenting to mind their own unless they wish to offer a constructive solution.

Nursery's issue will be because of the new guidelines as PP have said but as a parent to two ASD DC, one PDA and the other with ARFID I think you're doing fine - I can only dream of getting that amount of fruit and veg into mine!

What's wrong with it exactly? You have fruit, protein and carbohydrates in there. Nothing wrong with the Spaghetti Hoops if that's what he will eat (my boys loved them, too).

Nurseries and schools just seem obsessed with snooping their noses into kids lunch boxes these days. Can't even pack a bloody Penguin bar (showing my age!).

OP, I think you need to ask them exactly what they mean and what they think you should be packing. Listen to them and either try a few of the suggestions or just ignore them.

I have seen MUCH worse diets than that! I'm sure the food that the nursery would offer, if it's anything like my sons nursery, would not be whole foods anyway!

Your son is eating and you're not giving him crisps, fruit shoots and chocolate etc which is sadly so common in this age group. I think you're doing great given what you have on your plate at the moment.

Your DC eats much better than my did at that age. She’d go to bed hungry rather than eat any fruit or veg apart from fruit pruree. She’s much better now aged 15 but very controlling over food. She loves to cook and will eat lots of veg pasta sauce, soups and smoothies. She’s on the autism pathway with CAMHS. Older DD weaned like a dream and has a broad diet. Diagnosed ASC at 8.

My youngest was at nursery from 9 months only two days per week. Food was provided but she never touched fruit and some days only ate plain rice. She didn’t care what her friends were eating. Not sure what action Ofsted would take on that?

He's eating some veg, some fruit, some protein and some carbs. It's a pretty reasonable range of food and actually an excellent range of food if he is ND.

Ofsted have completely lost the plot regarding nutrition. They don't seem to understand that they are not qualified nutritionalists. Neither are they qualified regarding neurodiversity. In my opinion they have completely overstepped the mark regarding this and this is why your nursery is pushed into the situation of trying to get you to provide food your child won't eat. Ofsted don't even want children to have birthday cakes and have suggested some nice fruit instead..... Thank goodness I'm an ex childminder.

You're his parent. You know his needs best and you've succeeded in getting him to eat a nutritionally diverse range of foods that are realistic. Tell the nursery you appreciate their advice but as his mother you will be the one deciding on what he has in his packed lunch.

That sounds fine to me. I have an odd 7yr old who loves sprouts so there is hope yet 😂

I can't see anything wrong with sandwiches fruit and yoghurt. Spaghetti hoops are a bit odd but not the worst thing you could pack. Maybe the staff think white bread and tinned pasta is too much processed carbs at once?

If your child will eat hummus maybe you could pack a pot of hummus and cucumber sticks. And vary the type of fruit every day just for variety, if it's always a banana in the lunchbox but you offer different things after dinner at home maybe staff don't realise your child also eats strawberries and things.

Honestly though it's really not that bad.

This won’t be the staff who have decided.

as a nursery we follow government guidance.yes it’s guidance but when inspected they are pretty strict on it.

do I think the guidance is great , no , but it’s all about cutting salts and sugars.

we have sent the guidance home to parents and most are shocked about what’s on it… just as shocked as us staff are but we need to be seen to follow it.

You need to ask them to be more specific about what exactly is unhealthy. Because that sounds like a pretty balanced selection of food to me. Even the tomato sauce in the hoops is a veg portion.

I heard of a technique French parents use, I don't think it would work for a child ASD, but modified maybe it could.

There is always a 'safe food' on the table but the rule is, "you have to taste it so your tongue will learn". The child doesn't have to eat it but taste it, or if a child is fussy it just has to touch their lips.

I'm wondering, and being prepared to be shot down by the people who do know more, could this work? Maybe with smelling rather than tasting?