Am I a dickhead, friend and her child.

[amiadickhead]

I have a group of friends, all women in their late 20s/early 30s. We maybe meet up about 4 times a year. Sometimes husbands and partners will join if they're around and sometimes not. It is usually around 6 -8 people can make each one, someone throws out a date if you can make it fab if not then you catch the next one, there's usually very little drama, until Lucy.

Two of the couples have one child each, Martin and Angela have a DD we'll call Lucy and John and Linda have a DD we'll call Kate. No one else has children.

For our most recent meets, Martin and Angela have insisted on bringing Lucy, while John will either stay home with Kate or they'll get a babysitter. It's reached a stage where if someone suggests a dinner, Angela will say no it has to be lunch for Lucy and Martin to join. If someone suggests going for a drink on only a days notice, we're told oh that's not child friendly.

Lucy is two, and while her dad / Angela's partner is a nice man he's only in the friend group because he's with Angela, no one has a relationship with him outside of this, some feel he should stay home if they can't get a sitter. Anyway, people are getting annoyed that they are forcing their way all the time and it means plans don't get followed up on because we don't want to hang out with a 2 year old we want grown up time.

They won't take any hints and seem to think the world revolves around their little girl. Is there a way to phrase sorry this occassion is for adults only without being rude?

Am I/the rest of the group unreasonable to not want to spend our limited time together and adult catch ups with Lucy?

I think Kate's parents are most annoyed as they arrange care because because they want an adult night out with mostly child free friends,c if they cant Kate's dad stays home and they feel Lucy's parents should do the same.

AIBU?

I’m commenting again because my phone froze in the middle of my last post, posted it before I was finished, and won’t let me edit it to finish what I was saying! (It literally posted mid sentence!)

YANBU. Some people just think the entire world should revolve around their child and everyone else should sacrifice everything and want to include their child everything always.

As for your friend and Lucy - since you said the group meet ups are typically ‘whoever is available comes along’, then arrange things when it suits you and others as usual, and when she says she can’t come because of child - your response should be “ok sorry if you don’t have child care this time that’s a shame hopefully you can make it next time” and when she starts trying to insist on lunch time inform her this is not a lunch time event but she can arrange the next one if she wants. I suspect though based on her behaviour thst this is one of those children where you can’t have conversation with your friend because the entire meet up has to be about the child, so unless that’s the kind of meet up you want, I’d then just not go, because you’re not available this time. Oh well!

I might also be tempted to check everything is ok though - has she always been like this with her DP? Could it be he insists he comes along and she would struggle with child care as has no one else? Does he ever go out without her and child? I would want to rule out it being that her partner is causing issues rather than her being completely out of touch with reality!

The problem is that half the group is child free and won't want to go to a place full of screaming kids and play equipment so it would fall flat. When you aren't into kids, the last place you want to drink, relax and converse is a place where kids compete as to who can scream over each other the loudest. Kids aren't told to queiten down anymore.

But you obviously are a child orientated person who was interested in the kids but that's not the same for everyone. Not everyone has an affinity with kids or any maternal or paternal instinct and won't want to go to child orientated places. It they are going out for a treat a small handful of times a year, they will want a nice wine bar or restaurant, not a wacky warehouse.

Now you've talked to others about it and reached a consensus it should be much easier, OP.

If Angela says anything about not being inclusive or family friendly, pointless out a night at a cocktail bar isn't meant to include toddlers. If Martin's to babysit or they find a sitter, great, see her there and if not, see her next time.

At the end of the day if you have a couple that has a young child and a couple that just don't have any desire for kids, you are in two different worlds. If I had to meet somebody in wacky warehouse/ family fun pub type environment, I wouldn't be staying long because kids constantly screaming goes right through me.

We used to live near a family fun pub and it wasn't the best, screaming shouting kids running around beer garden tables, if you went inside, the tables would be covered in mess left behind by families, food all over the carpets. I couldn't imagine meeting people for adult get together in a place like that. Even the pub got fed up of it and eventually ripped out all the kids play equipment and got rid of it's family fun image.

I’m really shocked how many people seem to think that when your friends have kids you don’t as someone without kids adapt to their circumstances to make it easier for them to support the friendship during a more stressful time period. I’m 30 years into some of my friendships and hope they last another 30 plus years - accepting that for 5 years or so a lot of the get together won’t be in fancy bars or restaurants and will be us trying to chat around the baby / toddler / child etc is what I did by default as it seemed obvious that was how to support them and maintain the friendship. It’s not because I like kids (I do, but I also prefer fancy bars and restaurants especially before having my own and I had my kids 5-8 years later than most my friends) - it’s because it’s a temporary inconvenience.

Meh. Maybe occasionally for a sibling or lifelong school friend or something.

But I'm not organizing my social life around toddlers and children for the sake of work mates, casual friends or people I know through hobbies. They can find their own cohort to sit at soft play with.

I think Angela is being pretty unfair to her friend who cannot have kids by demanding that every single meet up has to be child friendly - talk about insensitive.

Why does every single meet up have to include their child? to the extent that Angela gets in a huff if the group want a spontaneous evening in a bar or pub.

If you look at my original post - I suggested 50/50 is roughly reasonable and others thought I was insane and that it was outrageous to do something kid friendly more than once in a blue moon. This is what I don't get! It's obviously fine for the group to do something adult orientated and accept Angela may not join.

Nobody suggested you were insane🙄,just queried how you arrived at the 50/50 figure given only one person out of the whole group wanted to do something with kids. How is that fair? Even if you work on the basis that everyone should get an equal opportunity to choose their preferred event, op said there are usually up to 8 people meeting each time so "fair" would be "angela" getting to choose every 8th outing.

I think there is too much here we don't know without making assumptions.

Maybe the husband hasn't many friends so she's keen he comes along and they don't have anyone they trust enough to leave her with.
Maybe Lucy has issues you are unaware (or maybe aware?) of making it hard to leave her right now.

Maybe it's a simple as she thinks you all like seeing Lucy because you've always immediately changed plans so she can come.

Maybe she is breast feeding and thinks this is easier than pumping and leaving instructions, or maybe she has guilt if she does.

Maybe whilst she wants to see you all, they have so little family time that she is trying to tick both boxes at the same time.

Maybe she feels guilty or anxious for other reasons if leaving her or missing time with her.

Maybe she has no family near to ask and sitters are expensive so she'd rather just bring her.

Like others are saying, as not everyone makes every date anyway it's fine to have some without her. But maybe if when it's clear your not accommodating the child she simply doesn't come anymore, you should reach out to check all is okay. Hopefully though there is nothing to it and she comes.

But the OP has said Angela has left Lucy with Martin to go on hen weekends. So she can leave her.

Angela just needs to realise that some
meet ups are going to be in the evening child free and if she wants to go then she needs to leave Lucy with Martin. That doesn’t mean the lunches can’t still happen.

I don't agree with this. I personally enjoy my time to have uninterrupted adult conversation. Quite frankly I think it is rude to insist that every meet up is made child friendly in a group where most of the group don't have children. I can't imagine it would be much fun for the 2 year old to sit there whilst the adults chat. So who is actually benefiting from this when the husband can easily stay at home and look after the child? Me and my friends all have kids and enjoy meeting up without the kids so we can have time to chat and eat without the inevitable interruptuons. When I meet with friends with the kids it is to a place that is child friendly and the kids enjoy.

I would just say it’s not child friendly so if you don’t want to arrange some childcare don’t come. It would really piss me off if I’ve arranged childcare and someone else turns up with their sprog.