Am I a dickhead, friend and her child.

[amiadickhead]

I have a group of friends, all women in their late 20s/early 30s. We maybe meet up about 4 times a year. Sometimes husbands and partners will join if they're around and sometimes not. It is usually around 6 -8 people can make each one, someone throws out a date if you can make it fab if not then you catch the next one, there's usually very little drama, until Lucy.

Two of the couples have one child each, Martin and Angela have a DD we'll call Lucy and John and Linda have a DD we'll call Kate. No one else has children.

For our most recent meets, Martin and Angela have insisted on bringing Lucy, while John will either stay home with Kate or they'll get a babysitter. It's reached a stage where if someone suggests a dinner, Angela will say no it has to be lunch for Lucy and Martin to join. If someone suggests going for a drink on only a days notice, we're told oh that's not child friendly.

Lucy is two, and while her dad / Angela's partner is a nice man he's only in the friend group because he's with Angela, no one has a relationship with him outside of this, some feel he should stay home if they can't get a sitter. Anyway, people are getting annoyed that they are forcing their way all the time and it means plans don't get followed up on because we don't want to hang out with a 2 year old we want grown up time.

They won't take any hints and seem to think the world revolves around their little girl. Is there a way to phrase sorry this occassion is for adults only without being rude?

Am I/the rest of the group unreasonable to not want to spend our limited time together and adult catch ups with Lucy?

I think Kate's parents are most annoyed as they arrange care because because they want an adult night out with mostly child free friends,c if they cant Kate's dad stays home and they feel Lucy's parents should do the same.

AIBU?

For a myriad of reasons it's very unlikely the rest of us will have children. Most of us don't want them and one woman has given up trying.

They once suggested some family fun day type event and people declined and Angela got in a huff 😂

Similar situation, girls evening wine & dinner. One group members husband suggested she bring the 2 year old out for the evening with us all because “none of them have seen the baby for ages, so surely must want to spend time with him and see him”… husband wanted to spend the evening gaming, couldn’t be fucked with the child it turns out.

I was the one that had to gently say that 90% of the group would refuse to come if she brought the baby as we all have young kids and the whole point of the night out is adult time away from kids.
it genuinely didn’t occur to her that no one wanted to spend an evening with her child. She was shocked.
It didn’t go down at all well unfortunately.

Wow. I can’t imagine getting into this kind of a scenario because the only people I remain friends with with longevity, are those I can be myself with and moan about the hardships of kids. Someone who was so oblivious that people don’t want to hang out with kids sometimes - we would not have a lot in common I fear 😆

That’s a shame for this woman if Angela insists on bringing her toddler the whole time, it’s thoughtless imo.

It's reached a stage where if someone suggests a dinner, Angela will say no it has to be lunch for Lucy and Martin to join. If someone suggests going for a drink on only a days notice, we're told oh that's not child friendly.

I'd take that as "it has to be lunch IF Lucy and Martin join" - and maybe if you want Angela there. But I'd still make it clear when a plan for a specific event has been set - "we're going bar/club-hopping down the King's Road from 8 PM til closing" - and whoever wants to come can come. If someone can't - like Angela (and Martin) if there's no one to watch Lucy - then OK, thanks for RSVP'ing, we'll miss you - and carry on because there are enough people who do want to go and can go to make it worthwhile. If Angela never comes to ANY event with the group, maybe whoever's closest to her in the group can talk with her one on one and see if it's possible to come up with a way for her to join - maybe John would be willing to watch Kate AND Lucy for an evening, if Martin won't step up? But don't rule out that she may have decided just never to go out without Martin and Lucy, and if so that's not the group's problem.

OK but my point is parents of babies/small children find it difficult to meet in the evenings. So if you care about the friendship, you'd agree to meet them for lunch once in a while, as well as keeping with your dinner plans.

Gobsmacked that people would entertain this more than once.

Set up a new WhatsApp without her, for evening outings, problem solved.

Why does the child's dad need to go though - he's a tag- along, not a member of the friendship group. The dad of the other child stays home if they don't have a babysitter. Small children can't help but be the focus of attention and this isn't a toddler and parents meet-up, it's adult friends.

Just say it’s an adult meet so no, you won’t be making it lunch, although it’ll be a shame if that means she can’t join you

Martin and Angela need to learn how to have separate groups of friends. So your group is the pre baby, adult group.

They then need to make new friends through baby groups, nursery, dad groups. These will be their Parent Friends.

The 2 groups can co exist alongside each other, never need to meet and can provide rewarding friendships for years to come.

Forcing pre baby friends to socialise with their toddler is never going to work.

Start a new WhatsApp group without them and meet regularly. Keep the old WhatsApp group and meet the dreaded Lucy occasionally.

You sound like you don’t really like Angela tbh

I agree with sounding out a few people beforehand so you know enough of you can make it. Then post 'Hi all, time for a catch up, anyone fancy (non child friendly venue) at 8pm?'

Ideally make it something that DEFINITELY isn't child friendly, i.e. seeing a band at an 18 plus venue, rather than something Angela can vary to a different time.

If she says 'Oh that doesn't work with Lucy's bedtime, how about (family friendly place) at 5pm?' Just go back with 'Ah that's a pity you can't make it, see you at the next one.' Or 'Sorry Angela, I really fancy X this time, let us know if you can make it, if not, no worries, see you next time.'

Then when you're all there minus Angela, take the opportunity to have a stern word with the others and agree no more wet lettucing (brilliant turn of phrase by that poster) - from now on unless it's Lucy's birthday party you go where and when you want, which will sometimes be adult focussed venues and if Angela and family can't make it tough luck.

I had a friend who used to do this as well, it is so annoying, changes the dynamic, and it really annoyed me to have to censor what I said to make it child friendly. Not that I'm a potty mouth or anything, but there's so much that adult women talk about that's not child friendly.

Just say sorry but you need an adult night. It's as simple as that.

I think you need to say adult only when initially suggesting a plan eg 'adults dinner and drinks at x on y date who is available?'. Nobody wants to have dinner with a two year old!

Perhaps a few meetups could be the original friendship group, in the evening, without partners - no excuse for bringing the toddler then, and partners change the dynamics too, as the original group was just women and the only men who attended are there as +1s.

I would just simply be asking Angela and Martin, "Can you get a sitter or perhaps Martin could babysit?"

why should other adults miss out because of pandering to the entitled parents? Smh

I would start specifying when get togethers are adults only. I have kids and have no problem telling other people when I don’t want theirs around me lol. Your friend is the dick. Not you.

Nip this in the bud before it turns into that mad situation on a previous thread where some mum ignored all her friends’ entreaties and brought her kid along to a hen do. Mind you, that was a brilliant thread! These people have no shame so you’ll get nowhere with hints. Be really clear this is for the actual friend group not her husband and dd. If she’s incapable of doing anything without them, that’s on her.

Send a group message that says girls night out planned, this is the venue, this is the time, hope you can make it, if not we'll catch you next time. There's nothing remotely awful about this and I don't see why you think otherwise.

There is no social requirement of any kind, ever, to accommodate other people's children in adult friendship groups. It's always entirely optional.

Friendship goes through fazes ,very few people keep the same friends their whole life .
It's is certainly possible your friendship with Lucy's parents has run it course
She wants to be able to bring Lucy to everything,the rest of you want adult time .that's quite opposing views and expectations.
I've 4 DC myself...and find it massively irritating when I've arranged to meet a friend and she brings her child ..I'm left sitting like a spare part while she entertains her child and there's little conversation that doesn't centre the child .
The friendship just fizzles, because I've only got limited free time ,and when I've managed to leave my kids at home ,I don't want to be forced to entertain someone' else's kid

Every friend group chat has sub group chats. Talk to the person you are closest to and arrange a dinner catch up that really suits you both. Then, post this message in the main group chat.

Hi friends x, y and z,

I know it’s late notice and might not suit everyone, but let’s catch up this Friday, 7pm at XXX.

As soon as this is posted, the other friends needs to reply immediately that this sounds wonderful.

After that, any complaints from others are met with a cheery, sorry, I knew this might not suit everyone, but happy to catch up with anyone who can make it/find a babysitter on short notice.

Angela lost me at asking someone else to call round the pubs to see if they’re child friendly - does having children somehow stop her from using a phone ?

OP l think a poster upthread was right. There’s no need for blunt or hurtful tactics. If Angela is a friend then you, or anyone else in the group can take her aside and tell her how you all feel, and that she can’t expect you all to continue to arrange your socials around her child. Point out that Linda has a child and always arranges childcare and it’s time she does the same if she wants to continue to be part of the group.

You could also maybe suggest that if she wants to arrange a family orientated get together from time to time to accommodate Linda’s DD too, that would be OK, but make the point that you all want this to be mostly adult time together. Being a parent changes your perspective and l think she’s just lost sight of the fact that she’s not just a mum, but a person in her own right.

the alternative yo this is leaving Angela out of the group activities - someone upthread has already suggested setting up another group without her. I think you owe it to her to try to tackle the issue honestly first before risking a blow up if she finds out she’s being bypassed.