Is it right women do more?

[NurtureGrow]

Please go gently.

I’ve been asking my husband to help me with housework since we met almost 5 years ago. He does ‘help’ sometimes, but he never does it fully. Ie the area/room is partly clean, there’s always more for me to do.

For me, doing things for each other is
important. I want him to find things clean and tidy. You can imagine after 5 years, it’s disappointing me, that I never find it as clean and tidy as I left it, and he never fully cleans an area for me. It’s always me.

He says he ‘can’t see it fully.’ ‘It’s not a priority’ he’s ‘doing his best.’

He’s also now saying that as he’s starting a business soon (going full-time in a week) he can’t do the business if he has to clean. I said this isn’t about the business, you’ve always been like this in a salaried role. You leave things for me to do.

It seems I have two choices: be submissive and accept it / or keep trying to make him understand. The latter isn’t working. I haven’t got extremely high standards, I would just like it left clean and tidy for me, as I do for him.

Example, I cleaned the kitchen earlier, it took 25 minutes. I’d just like him to do that for me, like sometimes, or ever. He says he can’t, it would take him 1 hour. He’s a genuinely nice person, but I just don’t think all this is right. We have a 1 year old baby.

Id genuinely like to know, please:
**
YABU - women do have to do more, male partners aren’t good at this. You shouldn’t keep asking him and accept it.
**
YANBU - he should do it fully sometimes, it’s not for you to always do

Thank you

Do you understand the difference between socialisation and actual genetics? And you still think this is somehow encoded in DNA. Cars were only invented about 150 years ago!

Women are generally taught from birth (from parents but also society) that it’s their job to keep the house clean and that they will be judged harshly otherwise. Men are generally not taught this. We are also taught (not even overtly a lot of the time, but just in the fabric of things) that this is because women are innately ‘better’ at cleaning (and buying throw cushions 🤣).

All this helps keep the status quo, which is that housework etc is done by women because they ‘care more’ or are better at it. Then women started doing more paid work, but this idea still remained.

I guess buying into it has helped you be less pissed off by your male partner so that’s a plus for you in some way, but it doesn’t help generally build a fairer world for women /everyone.

Women don’t have to do more. I wish early in relationships some women would slow down, raise their expectations and put down some boundaries instead of being so keen to play house and prove themselves to be a perfect future wife.

If he 'can't see it' make an exhaustive list for each room of what needs to be done so that he is forced to 'see it'. I agree with others. He doesn't sound nice and is doing a poor job so that you don't keep asking him.

Thank you all, I’m reading through all posts and will come back, I really appreciate it.

With regards to the car, I take care of that too. I wash it, hoover it out, long journeys check the tires (take to the garage), top up the windscreen fluid. I also drive mostly. Especially if we’re on a time constraint, as he find driving difficult (coordination?) and it will take longer.

I also notice and carry out most DIY. When I point out a roof tile is broken, for instance, he just stares at it. We had to go to multiple places to stand and point (the bedroom window, the floor outside) to show, the mortar isn’t attached. It could fall off and kill someone. Then he understood what I meant… then I got quotes and got it fixed…

In regards to some posts, I don’t do his washing. We never combined that, thank goodness. I made sure to have separate washing baskets. Though I did sometimes when I was on maternity leave. He does however, take care of managing bills going out.

And with regards to him being like it when we met 5 years ago. Well initially we didn’t live together of course, then rented, so repairs etc weren’t so noticeable. I contacted the landlord. The cleaning didn’t seem so bad either as it was open plan and we didn’t have a baby, so both had more time. He also did a 9-5 job.

Lots to read, and I will come back more. It is really giving me food for thought, clarity.

Oh, someone suggested every Thursday I say, right we are going to clean/ tidy this room etc. It was a good idea. I’ve told him that and he’s agreed. I’m not sure why at this age it’s necessary, but he says it may help him learn.

With regards to having a cleaner, we do once every 2 weeks. But everyday tidying, general wiping needs to happen. You can’t do that once every 2 weeks. She certainly doesn’t tidy and put things away either. She just cleans.

Also someone else’s comment, he doesn’t have good insight and wears glasses. But that doesn’t explain big things that are possible to see, or tasks to be done.

I know someone might say, why fix the roof tile, tell him to. But it needed to be done.

My ex tried the “can’t see” excuse until I pointed out that he’d stepped over stuff that I’d left on the stairs to take up later so must have seen it.

He was a project manager earning 6 figures so has to be detail orientated.

If he’s not good at cleaning then it means that he needs more practice at it. 😈 He shouldn’t be cleaning for you, he should be cleaning because that’s what adults do.

This sounds familiar. The ‘I can’t see’ is the worst, because it’s just literally not true. It’s the strangest form of gaslighting :(

Yes, indeed, that’s what adults do.

He has apologised this morning, but it’s getting too much.

Someone may have mentioned it already, but I honestly recommend buying the book ‘how not to hate your husband after kids’. My DH bought me it as a joke and we both ended up reading it - loads of really helpful statistics and advice to both partners that speak to the modern challenges of how workloads are shared in relationships with young children. And men admitting they just didn’t want to clean.

Makes sense for you to do more of the domestic stuff as you’re at home more. I know you have a child but it’s physically easier to stick a load of washing in, or prep dinner while the child is in her high chair having tea, or pop into the shops while out walking with the child..

However that absolutely doesn’t mean you do everything and it sounds like the rot set in well before having a child, while you both worked full time. If you always ‘accepted’ his lack of input in the home, it was hardly likely to change after having a child.

No, it’s not always like this. It’s not a given that women do more. Dh and I expected to have an even split from when we met… when we first rented a little flat together, we both cleaned and cooked. There was a short period of time when I worked 3 days a week, we also had pre school children at this time so it was busy but I did proportionately more stuff then because as I said, it’s easier if you’re physically at home. I know some people will say looking after children is a full time job but so much domestic work is a lot easier and less labour intensive nowadays - it’s not like we all wash by hand and put everything through a mangle any more! It’s so easy to stick a load in the washer and press the on button. I used to clean the toilet and wipe round the bathroom while the kids were in the bath. I could still watch and chat to them - multi tasking!

so yes, fair enough you can do more because there’s things you can do while at home that he physically can’t do if he’s at work. But for heavens sake stop accepting and facilitating his ‘helplessness.’ He should definitely do a reasonable share.

Thank you, I’ll definitely look this book up!!

I don't believe men and women are supposed to live together. Men generally don't care or notice if they're living in a complete tip and eating crap, whereas women, in general, do. There are exceptions of course. I think men make women unhappy by giving them extra work to do. I think partners or husbands could be invited over for short periods then go back to their own place. I don't suppose there's enough affordable housing to be able to do this.

Thank you, I do agree with doing more as at home on those days. I naturally do that. I guess my main issue is if things need cleaning or tidying it will always be me that either has to do it, or finish most of it. I never come in and think, ahhh, great, thank you for doing that.

Does he apologise a lot or only when pressured into feeling bad?

I'm not found of people who say sorry and then repeat their behaviour.

Yes, he apologises when pressured, usually the day after. There might be some minor change, but generally not much.

I think it’s most helpful to look at the big picture rather than the individual tasks when trying to figure out what is “fair”. Would you say overall across all the different aspects of your lives/home/child that things are even, or is this a problem across the board?

For example if I put myself and my husband in your position and we looked JUST at a clean kitchen, it is almost always me that cleans the kitchen so yeah I could argue that that’s unfair. The bigger picture though is that I have no idea what goes in which bin, have no idea what day bin day is/which bin it is, never take it out or bring it back in- my husband does all that. I don’t deal with the garden, the weeding, mowing, de-heading etc, my husband does all that.

Working part time will imbalance things, because you have more time/availability to do the home bite, but it’s worth looking at the big picture.

Ive been thinking about this and its generally me that does more cleaning, eg hoovering, wiping shelves down etc and unless things are really bad I don't think dh would care if it was done or not.

However without asking, he does the laundry when it needs doing, including pegging it out in good weather and putting things away, he does both the big shop and picks things up when we need it, he tends to clean the bathroom and I do the the toilet.

None of these things were agreed , they just evolved and he is a person that sees that something needs doing and does it. For example I generally do all the cooking but if im not at home or I am going to be at home late, he'll crack on and make tea.
Im happy with the split.
I agree with the ops friend from the party, you shouldn't have to ask.
Heck, I don't even have my adult sons and they just do what needs doing.

Both ds1 and ds2 pop round to our house and ive come home to find a job done, eg rhe washing brought in and folded, dishwasher loaded if weve not been in. I have to admit , it does amuse me!

Acceptance and compromise here. I’ve been married twenty years and we have very different standards. However, my husband will do anything for me so I let it slide that he doesn’t clean the kitchen sides to my standard. I expect when I paint the walls, I don’t do it as well as him (he’s an artist) but he doesn’t say anything.

You are only five years in and have a new baby, honestly these niggles are fairly normal. Does he give equally to the marriage? Equal doesn’t have to be the same things. I like the bed made so I make the bed. I like the house clean, so I clean it.
Dh picks up after himself and me and the children. But I do all laundry and most cooking. I don’t work. He works and is also renovating our home.

Can't see it.

Is he blind? No?

Then he can see it and that's a particularly stupid lie.

He doesn't want to clean, he doesn't respect your home, and he thinks you're the housekeeper.

Hire a cleaner. He's not going to do it, he thinks it's beneath him or he wouldn't be lying as an excuse. You've tolerated this for 5 years, so he knows you're not leaving him over it.

I'm just coming in from the other side because I grew up with a mother whose standards I never understood. She'd tell me to 'tidy up', so I would tidy up. Then she'd come back and tell me that I'd not done it right and I literally could not understand. She'd told me to tidy, I'd tidied. But apparently I hadn't put everything back in the right places, then dusted them, then hoovered where they'd been and all this was supposed to be implicit in 'tidy up'.

I was diagnosed as ADHD as an adult, but I'm still not sure if this was the problem. My idea of 'tidy' was obviously very different to hers. I have my own home now and it's 'tidy' but I sometimes feel the shade of my mum peering into corners and telling me I haven't tidied properly.

It's not your job to instruct your DH on what you mean by cleaning and tidying and it just adds to the mental load if you have to explain but please be aware that he might not know what your expectations are and be doing things to his own standards. Which might not be very high!

@Jellybunny56 @notacooldad @Chipsahoy thank you, sorry replying briefly as strangely not feeling well today.

Would you say overall across all the different aspects of your lives/home/child that things are even, or is this a problem across the board?

No, you gave the example of bins. Sometimes he does it, but mostly it’s me. I have to do the garden too, otherwise nothing gets done. I did however find him cutting some branches back recently, and I was shocked, but now they are on the patio and haven’t been picked up (weeks ago.) When I was pregnant I tried to paint the fence, but gave up. The fence needed painting as it was rotting. I also paid someone to do the garden as it just couldn’t be left, but it cost £200. I can’t do that often. Especially not now and it’s such a waste of money. The garden is quite small by the way.

Sometimes he washes baby clothes as well as his own, but doesn’t put them away after.

@Chipsahoy thank you for your balanced reply. I’d love if my husband did renovation. That would be amazing. But he doesn’t. When we bought our house, I showed him how to pollifillar the walls, sand and paint, but it was not successful. I also showed him how to strip wallpaper off the chimney breast, but it was so damaged after that it had to be replastered.

@Vroomfondleswaistcoat sorry to hear that, it sounds hard. I do explain and I don’t think I have particularly high expectations. He just doesn’t seem to be able to remember things to do. Like the last two nights, he did put our baby to bed as I felt unwell (unusual.) The first night I said did you give the vitamins and brush their teeth. He said no, he’s forgotten. The next night he put them to bed again. I said did you give the vitamins and brush their teeth? He hadn’t remembered again.

This is quite a personal detail, so I hope doesn’t make me identifiable, but when he was small he accidently ate a lot of prescription drugs of a family member. They had to open his stomach to get them out. I am wondering these days if that situation did something to him. There is the whole ADHD thing as well. But I don’t know or want to use it as an excuse.

I can give one final example. I’ve shown him how to turn the hob off (electric) many, many times. He just moves the pan to another hob. So it’s still on, not off. I show him again and again, but he doesn’t seem to remember.

Also as English isn’t his first language, he says his language is much softer, the tone is softer. I can’t speak it yet, but he wants me to speak more softly. I’ve explained that I used to, but after saying the same thing over and over again, anyone would get a little f**d off. So this morning, I found bowls in the cupboard thar were really dirty - like never been washed - in the sink or dishwasher. He must have taken the dirty bowls and put them in the cupboard. I’ve asked many times before, ‘please can you check bowls, plates, everything is clean before putting it away..’ obviously this is more extreme. But he wants me to say it very calmly. So I said the same thing again. He says he is ‘improving’ but this apparently requires me saying the same thing over and over for years, in a calm voice, that most adults just know.

To clarify the friend of a friend at the party was saying I shouldn’t ask - meaning I shouldn’t ask or expect at all - I should just do it. I was so shocked. But it led me think is this what everyone is doing!!!??

I also feel badly that our baby is smaller than they ideally should be. We’ve always seen a specialist. I have 2 friends whose partners do all the baby food prep. (I know they can often eat the same as adults, but not always.) They look at nutrition and make fancy baby ice lollies and all these things. But this is all down to me. I just wish someone could do that for me, or I do it, and they do other things.

My husband says he will, but then I go to give our baby yoghurt and he’s eaten the last of it. Or I feel unwell (unusual) and I go to take ibruprofen or paracetamol, and open both boxes and inside are empty packets with no pills left. He’s just put the empty packs back in the drawer. Obviously I didn’t know to buy more :/

Sorry for typos

Honestly I don't think you can do any more after 5 years of this nonsense.

In your next relationship you need to set the tone at the beginning.

All he has to do is put up woth some nagging and then he doesn't need to do any domestic labour so it's a no brainer to carry on as he is. It's disrespectful, sure, but you aren't going to change him.

Some of this sounds more like a learning disability than just a man being incapable, to be honest with you.

I wonder.

He is sort of clever (nothing in the physical world) but much of things in the physical world he struggles with 🤦‍♀️

The things he does for us are not in the physical world - he set the bills up and the internet, and does his work successfully.

Mostly everything else is physical world and it’s a struggle.

Also there seems to be a communication barrier if his first language isn't English.