Is it right women do more?

[NurtureGrow]

Please go gently.

I’ve been asking my husband to help me with housework since we met almost 5 years ago. He does ‘help’ sometimes, but he never does it fully. Ie the area/room is partly clean, there’s always more for me to do.

For me, doing things for each other is
important. I want him to find things clean and tidy. You can imagine after 5 years, it’s disappointing me, that I never find it as clean and tidy as I left it, and he never fully cleans an area for me. It’s always me.

He says he ‘can’t see it fully.’ ‘It’s not a priority’ he’s ‘doing his best.’

He’s also now saying that as he’s starting a business soon (going full-time in a week) he can’t do the business if he has to clean. I said this isn’t about the business, you’ve always been like this in a salaried role. You leave things for me to do.

It seems I have two choices: be submissive and accept it / or keep trying to make him understand. The latter isn’t working. I haven’t got extremely high standards, I would just like it left clean and tidy for me, as I do for him.

Example, I cleaned the kitchen earlier, it took 25 minutes. I’d just like him to do that for me, like sometimes, or ever. He says he can’t, it would take him 1 hour. He’s a genuinely nice person, but I just don’t think all this is right. We have a 1 year old baby.

Id genuinely like to know, please:
**
YABU - women do have to do more, male partners aren’t good at this. You shouldn’t keep asking him and accept it.
**
YANBU - he should do it fully sometimes, it’s not for you to always do

Thank you

I voted you’re being unreasonable for all these reasons and putting up with this from the start.

Did she mean you should tell him? Does a nice man let his partner do more work while he has fun?

theres no mystery here OP, he's not cleaning cos he can't be arsed and he knows you'll do it. He's got an easy life where you run around after him and if you ever try to get him to adult up. He just waaahs at you and waves his "but I earn the money' card at you. Tbh he sounds utterly awful

for godsake di not have another child with him

he will never change btw. He does know, he just values his own can't be arsedness over you. Question is, is this the luge you want and the model of life you want to demonstrate to your child

That's a depressing take on life!

OP, I wonder what make you think he would change? He's been like this since you met

He is a lazy sexist twit and you should most definitely go on strike. Do not have another child with this idiot.

He should be doing that anyway. What happens on days off work? Would he care for his child while you went for a walk, or lunch with a friend? Or just generally? He sounds awful and you’ll be teaching your child that women do all the house stuff and parenting while men don’t have to.

Come on. OP has made it clear her husband prefers to treat her like a skivvy, rather than this being a time issue

Does he not hear that I can’t fully do my business thing is ridiculous? So there’s a middle ground- I have friends who’s husbands do actually clean/ get things done but they’re fussy and I think I couldn’t do the job you want done and I feel for the husbands.

In general though so many men do one or two things and then talk about them like they’ve scrubbed the whole house while our (women’s) days off are spent actually cleaning the whole house. . A lady had a post the other day asking if it was fair that she earned three times her dh’s salary and he didn’t do all the housework- I honestly think men look at it like that- they think housework is for the non principal breadwinner

This is quite a direct way of putting it - but if you’re able to take this on board you’ll be able to assess things clearly.

All this BS about not seeing mess, how can I get him to change, let’s draw up a rota, it’s about the business, is a distraction that keeps you busy thinking about him and his needs. Fuck that. Develop a clear-eyed view of the situation - he sees you as a prop and a means to an end - and decide to what extent you can live with it. You demeanour and approach will change, and you’ll see whether he steps up. You can think about what you want from your life.

I’ve been asking my husband to help me with housework since we met almost 5 years ago.

This is the problem.

If I'd met someone like this, I wouldn't have married him.

I've been married and I now live with a partner. I've never had to train a man, ask him to help or had anything other than 50/50 contribution to running a house.

I suspect that it is very hard to change this dynamic once it is embedded. My husband cleans (and shares everything else) but I didn’t ever intend to act like his mum so I never have done. I’d like to think he wouldn’t be a lazy, selfish arse and expect me to do everything but I’ll never 100% know.

I wouldn’t have any more children with him OP unless things do change as I’ll only get worse for you and you’ll be run ragged.

Every day lately I read something like this on here. I just don’t know who these men think they are!
I would be embarrassed if I thought someone was running g round after me cleaning up my mess.
My dad did his bit, my ex had many faults but always cooked, shopped and cleaned. My sons do the same now. Men are regressing it seems to me.

HRFT just wanted to say we are both women in my marriage so sex doesn't play a part in it. But we are polar opposites. She would look at a room and think "this is clean and tidy", whereas I would think this is disgusting and needs a clean. Everyone has different standards depending on how you grew up, and everyone lives differently. She knows that having a nice house is important to me so she helps with the housework and tidies away after herself. But I accept that my cleaning is a little OTT and I can't expect her to develop the same kind of anxiety around it. We have a lovely home. I'm a SAHM so to me divide and conquer means "she's at work all day, so I'll do my part and look after the kids and tidy as I go". Then on a Sunday we both muck in and clean/tidy where needed to reset for Monday.
My point sorry, is that she is another woman but she is a lot like your DH. And I don't expect her to clean a room for me entering. I expect her to tidy her shit up after herself, or tidy/clean if there's an obvious mess. But to come home from a 12hr shift and then start cleaning skirting boards? I don't think that's fair x

You need to approach it like this OP:

"So DH, presumably you're not a total piss taking wanker who thinks it's OK to do the bare minimum in the house you live in as a grown adult. So on that basis, you're happy to agree a cleaning rota, yeah?"

I've been with my (otherwise lovely) DH for 20 years and never stop beating that drum.
He has chores assigned to him that he MUST do. And I pass anything that is remotely within his skill set over to him to sort out. I've accepted I'll never get to escape delegation unfortunately.
That leaves me to do all of the ad hoc stuff that he is apparently blind to (dusting, hoovering, washing, cleaning out the fridge, cleaning out cupboards etc).

I've made it clear in the last few years: "You do your share, or I leave you"
(I've got a good job and we dont have kids, so he knows I can comfortably set myself up in my own place if I need to, and it's not a hollow threat).

It's been 5 years OP and you chose to have a dc with him. He won't change, I agree with that woman why bother asking.
Either accept he won't leave the house clean and tidy for you or split up. Banging your head against a brick wall is getting you nothing but resentment

My DH cleans like a teenage, you know - just enough to say he's done a task. For example, he will clean the kitchen by loading the dishwasher but he will forget to wipe and sweep and the saucepan will be left soaking. So I'll end up coming in and finishing off.

I used to get very upset but then I realised it was wasted energy. He was simply cleaning to a standard that he was happy with.

We do things differently now. He does tasks that I never do. He does all the laundry everyday. He does all the bins. He fixes everything. We split the cooking. A cleaner comes once a week and does the floors, surfaces, bathrooms etc. Our child tidies the sitting room every evening (her toys and straightens the cushions on the couch.) He makes the bed. He unloads the dishwasher in the morning and when I am cleaning the kitchen I'll give him a specific job.

I actually believe your husband that he doesn't see things the way you do. I've been guilty of looking at the rain not seeing the clothes on the line. DH doesn't tell me off when he springs by anymore, we just accept that we are both different.

Could you try splitting by tasks instead of areas or turns?

He's been like this since you met him, you say so in your first sentence, and yet you married him and had a child with him. If you thought you could "train" him to be a more functional adult you made a mistake. People only change if they want to, he does not want to.

Being pleasant is not the same as being a good person. You say he looked after the baby for the whole day when you were ill as if looking after his own child was an act of generosity. This suggests he does "see" parenting as his job either or you wouldn't think it was noteworthy. I would guess he is generally lazy and selfish about everything except what interests him; the daily grunt work of keeping a household ticking over is women's work.

Putting up with it or trying to make him see are not your only options. He will not change so you need to decide if you can live like this for the rest of your life. Lots of MNetters think posters rush to advise OP's to LTB but if it's obvious someone does not want to change why would you spend the rest of your life being a man's servant? You are feeling fed up after 5 years, how do you think you will feel in another 20?

I agree with this. This was an issue early on in my relationship so I said, what'll it be: do more of this or pay someone else to do it? Unsurprisingly, he chose the latter. Unsurprisingly, I find the cleaners, make sure they are paid, ensure they have materials etc.

The stupid thing is, I actually quite like cleaning but there was no way I was doing it while he went off on his bike.

Cleaners are mostly women too, so I'm not sure it really sends the right message to children.

Just read all your updates @NurtureGrow
Your husband is a misogynist. It really is that simple. Look at his actions. He doesn’t clean up after himself because he doesn’t want to. It really is that simple. He won’t listen to you because he doesn’t want to. He doesn’t feel it’s worth his time, but he does feel it’s worth YOUR time. He is showing you, in real time what he thinks his worth is, and what he thinks YOUR worth is.
He is manipulating you by saying he can’t tidy because of the business.
He’s manipulating you with his weaponised incompetence.
These are not the actions of a man who respects you and values your relationship, because respect cannot be compartmentalised. If he respected you and valued the relationship, he would listen to you, and he isn’t.

At the very least, he should be cleaning up behind himself, but by the sound of it, he can’t even be bothered to do that?

And of course he is passionate about women working outside the home. Misogyny doesn’t just look one way.

Definitely do not just suck it up for a year for his business. He will never expect anything else from you again and he hardly sucks it up for you! He just says excuses and refuses to try.. so why are you being a mug? Low self esteem? Was your mum a martyr too?

• pay for a cleaner frequently as a non negotiable
• Make him aware you will not be shouldering any extra childcare or household responsibilities as he starts his business- he will still need to do nursery pickup on x y days etc or cook/provide dinner on x y days
• delegate some tasks to him to own fully like dishwasher on before bed, floor hoovered or spray mopped
• Read "fair play" book by Eva someone.. I can't remember off the top of my head
• Make sure you have a good grasp of finances as he starts his business as most men under declare income etc so if worst comes to the worst and you split in the future, he will shaft you on child maintenance

I work less than my husband - 5 days but only a few hours a day. When we were both FT, we split it. (Actually tbf he was better than me, I’m a “pile the mess into a cupboard and forget it” gal) now I’m on reduced hours, I keep on top of the cleaning and laundry. When we moved to this model, I did notice he got lazy - had lunch, left pans out, plate on side. Coffee cups everywhere, towel and dirty laundry on floor. After a couple of conversations I just stopped cleaning up after him. If the kitchen was a tip from lunch, I’d cook something eg straight in the slow cooker/oven so I could cook through the mess. He got the picture.

I have been married 20 years, when dh moved in I had a business I ran from home that created some mess so it naturally fell to me to clean up. I n ever noticed dh didn’t do much until I started working full time out the house. Then we had kids snd it was worse, I spent years ‘nagging’ doing lists, and even accepting I do more. I made sure I worked less hours to allow for this.
But eventually I managed to find a way, I divided the day to day jobs up-
me - cook mon- Thurs, dishwasher, laundry ,
dh- cook fri-sun, hoover, bins, recycling
Then I chose some of the other jobs - bathrooms, dusting, general tidying of rooms.
I dropped beds, garden, oven, windows, ironing.

i just do ‘my’ jobs I don’t tell dh to do his or comment if he hasn’t done them or done them poorly. I just leave it. And he actually started doing them regularly and properly.! He still says from time to time’we’ need to do xyz and I agree ‘we’ do and do nothing. I have time for my hobbies and I’m a lot happier.

Get a cleaner

Sounds like Learned helplessness

The two whole days at home are spent looking after a one year old baby.