Schools in the UK

[Bobajob02]

I grew up in the UK but live abroad now and my kids are in school over here. Are schools in the UK really as bad as they sound? Isolation, insane school uniform rules, detentions for the slightest misdemeanour. Not being able to take kids out of school during term time. Piled on top of that loads of exam pressure from a young age.

Do kids actually enjoy school in the UK? Is it ok if they are bright and toe the line? What about those who don’t fit the mould? Does this approach improve children’s outcomes (not just academic, but also in terms of well-being)?

You're the one conflating "non-essential" with "damaging". Of course fiscal policy involves discretionary choices and I'm not going to agree with all of them any more than you do.

I work in a primary school. It's a lovely happy place with motivated teachers.
Kids in school 190 days a year - find other times for holidays.
Uniform brings sense of belonging. Only 3 things can have school logo. It's cheaper than normal clothes
Behaviour more an issue at high school.

I love my job. Look forward to going in every day. State school. The pupils in my class are happy and nurtured and are most certainly learning.

The thing I don't get is that you get fined for taking kids out of school but then you have parents on here at their wits' ends because school refuses to take their SEN child because they can't (or won't) accommodate their needs.

Either school is mandatory, or it isn't. You can't pick and choose based on whatever suits the school. I always wonder, what would happen if parents kept bringing their SEN kids to the school and refused to take them home - can the school really refuse to take them in or are they just pretending they can ?

As for the VAT thing I'm all in favor of state education, but I think the way to make it happen is to make state schools so good that there is no incentive to pay for private. Not to tax people out of private schools.

A lot of attention goes to the extreme cases - the ones where autistic 11-year-olds get detentions in their first week for walking too fast, or (at the other end of the scale) where kids throw chairs at teachers and get away with it. Probably most schools are somewhere in the middle.

I do get the impression the extremes might be more extreme than they used to be. Academisation has perhaps meant there's less of a standard approach to education, which allows the extremes to thrive.

As an even more random aside I have googled and it seems VAT is payable on vapes and an additional tax is on its way. I may have misunderstood that point.

My DD’s middle school is amazing. Behaviour is managed very well indeed and the teaching is good. However, up until Easter she was at a previous middle school that was horrendous and just like what you hear about on here- terrible behaviour, poor teaching, awful rules. My ds is at an amazing lower school. However he moved to it in Year 1 after a terrible experience at his previous lower school. So yeah, some schools are just as bad as what you hear about and some are much better.

yes the schools are insane. Attainment is poor, every day we hear about the violent behaviour of students. There are dozens of pages of teacher prohibition orders following terrible things happening. The SEND system is in crisis because school is so toxic to SEND children. Schools care more about whic socks children are wearing than about enormous failure rates on GCSEs. Home education has doubled in a couple years. Ultra nationalists like these people refuse to discuss the problems, even when they're on the front page of newspapers every day and many of us are dealing with this hell day in and day out.

Indeed. The main problem in Scottish schools is the total lack of consequences for poor behaviour. That and the failing curriculum.

Sorry but thats not always the case these days. Schools are in an academic crisis regarding quality recruitment especially in sciences and Maths
Since academisation state secondary school lessons are not always taught by qualified teachers and even then they don't always have relevant degrees.
There's a lot of PR goes on to make the staff profile in many state schools look better than it is.
Loads of staff with non STEM degrees attempting to teach sciences /maths especially " down South".
Also, large numbers of cover lessons being delivered in some schools, especially in KS3 by " cover supervisors" many of whom have limited qualifications.
This is often the case even in " good" state schools.
Wheeling out the old chestnut of " it's a vocation" doesn't pay the bills or improve the toxic blame/ woke culture prevalent in many schools, which discouragrs quality applicants to join or stay in the profession

My 11 year old has just started secondary school, he is enjoying it. He's not had detention and has had lots of house points plus 2 certificates (for attendance and for having over 100 house points). They get homework but it is manageable and he does it as it is set.
He wears a uniform and sticks to the rules/expectations.
We've never had a term time holiday but then I'm a teacher so wouldn't anyway.

I teach primary. Today, my class have painted, used an art package on the iPad and played with construction as well as phonics and guided reading. My class have had 3 playtimes and went home with smiles on their faces.

Just depends on the school really, my two daughters go to a small secondary in a small NE town, neither of them have ever had a detention or isolation, they are quite strict on uniform but it's really not difficult to get it right. They praise the kids a lot and do all sorts to keep them motivated.

One of my friends would tell you it's horrendous and her son gets told off all the time for absolutely no reason, in reality her son is rude and disruptive but she can't/won't see that and just blames the school for dishing out detentions for "no reason".

You need to visit some schools yourself and have a look.

You can't go by what one article says.

No you can't take out kids during term time, but that's fair enough, what if they all went away during term time? For that you should go private.

early50omg · Today 16:01

Uk schools are Far better than schools in Australia for example

My close friend does not agree!

This is the school she went to which she says is as good if not better than our Daughter's Grammar School.
Sydney Girls High School (nsw.gov.au)

This is a Selective High School which is Australia's equivalent to the England's Grammar Schools.

But most European countries don't have school uniforms, so that element of the relationship between schools and students/ families isn't part of the equation.

You could be speaking about the school where I work. Many amazing things happen every day. Teachers doing Top Up clubs week in week out, to give extra help for GCSEs, daily rehearsals for the grand musical in the New Year, PE fixtures and tournaments several times a week, rehearsals for the Christmas concert, charity fundraising for the South American trip next year, SEN lunch clubs, extra reading support in the library, chess club, dungeons and dragons - just about a club for everything…..
But discipline is important to prepare for the real world. As is having respect for your uniform.And detentions? They have always been around - in my day there were Saturday morning detentions.
And if you choose to take your child out of school in term, then take responsibility for the lessons they miss. And on results day, don’t blame the teachers.

@Thankyourose Totally off topic, but I am interested where abouts in the country you live that there is a swimming team at your school? All the school pools in the town I live (and grew up in) are no longer there. Apparently too expensive to run. There is now only the one at the leisure centre.

When I was at secondary school in the 90's swimming was part of PE. Now without a pool it is not. My Dd's are still primary age, but I feel particularly sad about the lack of secondary school pools. My eldest has joint issues, meaning a lot of sports cause her too much pain. She is a fantastic swimmer though and it is so good for her. Swimming is such a great sport for lots of children with physical SEN needs. It's such a shame. I also think there are going to be so many more children that don't learn to swim due to this lack of provision.

DD just finished high school & now at college. High school was strict. DD has excelled, as most of her friends have done, not just academically. Teachers were genuinely interested, lots of after school activities, she was encouraged throughout her 5 years. Yes - strict discipline, uniform and attendance.

It varies hugely. I genuinely don't get where the 'too strict' perception comes from though. A tiny minority of disruptive kids spoiling things for everyone is a much bigger issue. And I'd take those local press stories about my poor little angel getting punished for breathing the wrong way with a massive pinch of salt.

My sister was at a comp in the 80s, bullying and hardly any discipline for it was rife. Heads flushed down toilets, that kind of thing.

As much as I'd rather it wasn't necessary, a hard line on behaviour and bullying does seem to make things better for the students.

My DC's school is extremely strict but he enjoys it as he 1. Sticks to the rules 2. Likes the rules are clear and 3. There's less mucking about from other students.

I do think there is a problem in a minority of schools where they have used isolation incorrectly and put students in isolation for eg 80 days in one year which impacts their learning and doesn't really achieve anything for anyone. But I'm not actually aware of this happening at any school I know.

Ah, and there it is… VAT on fees 🤣

This isn't fair at all regarding state secondaries (I have a Yr 9 in the state system). There is massive variation. The uncomfortable truth is so much depends on intake. Schools where many pupils come from families where education isn't prioritised, parents are disengaged and poor behaviour isn't challenger at home are always going to face struggles. And I grew up on a grim council estate and went to a series of dog rough schools, so I speak from experience.

It achieves not having that kid disrupting all the decent ones who want to learn. I'm all for it.