Schools in the UK

[Bobajob02]

I grew up in the UK but live abroad now and my kids are in school over here. Are schools in the UK really as bad as they sound? Isolation, insane school uniform rules, detentions for the slightest misdemeanour. Not being able to take kids out of school during term time. Piled on top of that loads of exam pressure from a young age.

Do kids actually enjoy school in the UK? Is it ok if they are bright and toe the line? What about those who don’t fit the mould? Does this approach improve children’s outcomes (not just academic, but also in terms of well-being)?

Maybe in England, not in Scotland. Mine don’t wear uniform and they never have detentions, doesn’t exist as a punishment in their school. Rural north east Scotland here. Also no fines or punishments for term time holidays.

Loads of supply teachers, endless testing, weird uniform rules, lack of arts, vile kids.

OP - Is this what you want to hear so you can feel smug about your life choices?

I think it varies. Those articles etc are about secondary schools, if you grew up jn the UK then primaries are similar to what you'd remember with more focus on mental health, healthy eating and higher acadenic standards (imo, my kids learn maths and
grammar at a level way beyond 90s primary school). There's a lot dependent on funding, e.g. our primary used to have a therapy dog and perm counsellor but then funding has now gone. Send support is also massively impacted by funding and isn't great. Our local secondary is strict on uniform and discipline- as a result kids are well behaved, bullying is reduced, they have an amazing drama studio and theatre, amazing trips skiing, Rome, france etc. There are issues of course, and treading a line between discipline, rules on one side and violence/bullying/disrespect on the other is hard for Heads. Personally, whilst isolation is not nice, if a child punched my dd/ds in the face then isolation is the very least they deserve. The outliers always make the papers, the boring average school isn't going to be appearing in a newspaper and no happy parent takes to a rant on Facebook or mumsnet.
Yes in theory it's a fine for taking them out, but it's a fine for 10 missed sessions (aka a whole week off on holiday). We regularly take them out for a few days here or there and have never been fined. It's just a case of being sensible and picking most holidays during the very long (Christmas 2 weeks, Easter 2 weeks, summer 6 weeks, a week in October, week in feb and a week in May) school breaks.

Where are you living where the schools are so amazing?

I think there's a mix. Some good, some less so. Of course the bad ones and issues make it into the media more than the good ones. My DS is year 9 (13) and generally pretty happy at school. We live in SE and his school is considered good, there's another school about 15 min drive away also considered very good. He has had a few behaviour points and lunch detentions (mainly during year 8) but no after schools. Uniform, he has to wear black trousers, shirt, tie and blazer but wears adidas all black trainer type shoes and school seem OK with that. I think they strike a fairly good balance overall.

They have just banned all smart phones from school transport and within school altogether (3 day confiscation if you're seen with a phone). Previously phones were meant to be put away at all times but allowed on the bus to and from. DS hasn't noticed too much difference from the new rule apart from being slightly annoyed that he can't listen to music on the bus!

The successful schools here do tend to be strict. Mostly they have to, to avoid chair-throwing etc. Selective schools or schools in rich areas can be more relaxed as they often have a more motivated intake.

If you look at improvements in maths and English over the last decade, I think our schools are doing pretty well.

I don’t experience in secondary schools yet but our boys go to primary school and we are super happy! Lovely atmosphere, caring teachers etc. I love the uniforms to be honest as it’s easy and equal for all. I hate though the process of entering to reception as well as the fines. So far calling sick works to get time off school without fine as the boys are in different schools so no-one suspects anything 😂

I never said the schools here are amazing, but they are certainly less strict. I’m just curious about the stories I read on here and in the media are representative, or if most kids are generally enjoying school. We may or may not be moving next year and school is a big consideration.

I agree that story of a week's isolation for running is sad if true. I am not sure my dad's school uses isolation at all and if it does it would be for extreme cases of disruptive or dangerous behaviour.

I don't have an issue with strictness, as long as it makes sense. My school was strict and my parents schooling was incredibly strict.

I'm in Scotland (different education system from England!) and I don't recognise what you describe.

We don't have the weird uniform rules, as long a my son wears black trousers, school tie and white shirt the can wear whatever else they like.

We don't have the attendance fines, term time holidays aren't encouraged but no real consequences for doing so unless your kids attendance is very poor.

His school don't use isolation or detention. There's certainly some poor behaviour though.

Exam pressure is very individual, my ds has his exams this year and is cool as a cucumber, couldn't be more laid back about it, predicted all As.

My eldest son (15) likes school and doesn't like to miss it. My youngest (11) would take it or leave it, he'd rather stay home but he doesn't have a choice. I think that's very much personality though rather than anything to do with the school.

I dunno. Seems like everyone in that article has an excuse. No point in having rules if they aren't enforced

I'm a secondary school Teacher (Scotland). No this is not typical of my school. Uniform has plenty options to suit all for example a blazer or a school branded half zip top as an alternative. No isolation rooms however we do have safe spaces for time out then young person can go back to class when appropriate. Detentions- yes although the behaviour is of a good standard and I've hardly had to use this. Not all schools are the same.

I lived abroad for a long time and used to worry about that, as well as the state of the NHS and various other things. It does seem worse when you live away and are reading about it in the press. I've moved back and not regretted it. My experience is that there are good and bad things about schools everywhere. Some regimes abroad were really strict. Insisting you repeated the year if you had one or two marks below the average. On the other hand they never had to wear school uniforms. My kids said that the schools here are strict here but that people have more fun.

Uk schools are Far better than schools in Australia for example

Agree but punishment ought to be proportionate to the crime. A week of isolation is harsh imo. And nothing like that would ever happen to you in adulthood unless you commit an actual crime

My dd is S2 (Scotland) and that's not her school at all. No fines, no strict uniform rules and no issues with violence. There has been a couple of fights but I would think that's unavoidable no matter what school you're at. There is also a hub for sen kids and looks like a lot of support although we haven't made use of that so cannot really comment on that. Current head seems really passionate about education.

Lived and worked in both (Teacher) and I would have to agree.

Toeing the line is not a bad thing when children need to behave so everyone can learn.

Councils have reported no obvious impact on state school applications due to children moving to state schools after VAT. It is also raising more money than anticipated.

I do agree with your last paragraph though. Gove has a lot to answer for.

Schools (like the UK) are very varied. Where are you asking about? I wouldn’t generalise as each school has different outcomes/paths for students. Equally each child suits a different academic setting. If you can afford private, or can have access to an excellent state or grammar, then you’ll be fine.

Teachers most certainly do teach in the school where I work (as a TA not a teacher so I get to watch them in action). There are however a disturbingly large percentage of students who put a lot of effort into Not Learning. If they put as much effort into Learning as they put into Not Learning then they'd be flying.

Not Learning involves actively ignoring the teacher, refusing to do any work, arguing with the teacher when asked to either pay attention or do work, trying to make other students laugh, being rude, deliberately behaving in ways to get exited from the classroom so they can avoid the lesson. That's the ones that turn up. There are also the ones who hide around school, often in the toilets, and think it's against their human rights to be expected to actually go to their lesson.

If your children are not learning in school then it might be worth asking some questions about what they actually are doing. It could be that they are one of those that are actually trying to learn but are getting constant disruption in their lessons from those who are Not Learning. Or it could be that they have made a choice and are actively Not Learning themselves. If they are getting a lot of detentions I'd suspect the latter.

All schools will have an invacuation/lockdown policy. Some choose to practice it some don't.

Isolations are only for serious offenses
Uniform is fine. Just dress smart
Detentions are there if you break the rules
Yes you can't take term time holidays without at least a fine. School is there for a reason.

Exam pressure is fine. Get over it. My ds did one GCSE in year 9, 2 in year 10 and 11 in year 11.

My ds really enjoyed some years. He loved year 11 onwards.

It's good if the secondary is a grammar school or private school. State comprehensive, not the best. If you're not academic, just put the work in

Except the maths ain't mathsing with that claim.
This article makes absolutely no sense. 1% of ISC private schools raised their fees. 99% decreased their fees before adding VAT and therefore decreased the tax base.

What dataset shows private schools raising their fees before adding VAT?

A helpful headline for its supporters is that it’s the VAT PER CHILD that’s higher than expected (because schools have not absorbed as much as was expected) - not the overall benefit. With 8x more students leaving private schools than expected - that has to be lower.