Schools in the UK

[Bobajob02]

I grew up in the UK but live abroad now and my kids are in school over here. Are schools in the UK really as bad as they sound? Isolation, insane school uniform rules, detentions for the slightest misdemeanour. Not being able to take kids out of school during term time. Piled on top of that loads of exam pressure from a young age.

Do kids actually enjoy school in the UK? Is it ok if they are bright and toe the line? What about those who don’t fit the mould? Does this approach improve children’s outcomes (not just academic, but also in terms of well-being)?

This is bullshit.

Agree. And a week after I went to a funeral of a much loved teacher whose colleagues, family and students all spoke eloquently and emotionally of the bond between him and his students, his passion for his subject and and the pride he took in their achievements, at whatever level was right for them, feels quite offensive.

Agreed, it’s a LOAD of shite. State school teachers have degrees, and specialities and are people who have chosen a vocation over a job that could pay a lot more. They don’t do a degree, and a postgrad just to wander into school and dial it in… FFS

Well, the bigger issue (which some of these ‘strict’ rules’ are trying to address) is that behaviour is out of control in many secondaries.

There are big issues with lessons being constantly disrupted and bigger problems such as violence and bullying.

The stricter expectations are starting to make a difference in the schools using them.

State secondaries, yes. Awful. Oversubscribed, violence, bullying, burnt out teachers, teacher shortages.

Labour had the spiffing idea to add VAT to private schools in an effort to extort money out of the private system which means even more children in the already overwhelmed state system.

Understandably there has been an increase in the number of people deregistering their children from god awful state schools to home educate them. And now Labour is piling the pressure on them to make it harder to home educate and keeping kids in school.

The whole UK education system is archaic, unfit for function and needs a total rethink and overhaul. It is failing children. It is doing about as well as the NHS.

In our area there are a number of ongoing consultations about potential closure of undersubscribed schools so I don't think the picture you paint is universal.

Teacher shortages yes I do agree.

Oh, please come and have a go babe! Seeing as how you're an expert.

It is hugely variable, IME.
My DD has only just started secondary but they have been very gentle introducing the new year 7s. She's struggling a bit with some things and they have been nothing but understanding. She's having additional help with reading, she's quite shy so is in a social skills group, and nobody has pulled her up on any of her (multiple) uniform infractions (messy rather than taking the mickey - she's being assessed for ADHD but it's a long wait).
Visiting the school ourselves there is no feeling pupils are in charge or any whisper of out of control pupils. The school is small and rural (this obviously helps) but it feels safe and also has great exam results (which is possibly because it has a really good sixth form with boarding pupils from all over - but now they are getting really on the case with her reading in her first half term, I can see they are putting in the effort with all the pupils).

The problem in certain parts of the UK is that significant numbers of children come from homes where the parent(s) do not enforce any rules. At one end of the spectrum you have children being raised by a parent who does not have their own life in order. How are they going to impose rules on their children? At the other are those parents who espouse “gentle parenting” ie not imposing any rules, or only after spending 15 minutes in discussion. How does that work in a classroom situation?

Some schools have a disproportionate number of children who have not learned to follow any rules so they respond with strict measures. I think it works for some and it also protects those children who can follow rules from having their education completely blighted by low level disruption.

In what way am I wrong?

Are you thinking of moving back?

You’re talking about all schools in Scotland as if your experience is reflective of the entire system. This is not my experience at all in Scotland.

I would disagree.

5.5 million kids gained GCSEs this year. I’m guessing they learned something in school.

This is very similar to our experiences too. Normal comprehensive high school and both our kids had very positive experiences there and at primary school. One still there and one in a sixth form college. My mum is ex teacher and reads lots of guardian online etc and sometimes talks to me in a panic about state of schools these days, and while I believe they there are plenty of problems, I do reassure her that they’re not universal, and definitely not our experience. The extreme parts get the headlines. Perfectly lovely school with nearly all happy kids progressing well with good teaching - doesn’t make any headlines or clicks at all.

Someone compared it to the NHS and that too sometimes gets a bad press. Unfortunately I've had exposure to it quite a bit lately at different ends of the country and no one would say it's perfect but my family have had blood tests, an X ray and an ultrasound appointment with no queue, 2 x out of hours appointments on a Saturday with no drama and 2 x hospital admissions with lots of treatment and tests in the past month and haven't personally had any complaints. Yet according to Mumsnet that's impossible.

The British education system is still one of the best in the world. Our kids are very happy in school, lots of relatives are teachers and they enjoy their jobs. One has worked in the ME for many years and finds it much better in the UK for teachers and students. Another worked in Aus and find behaviour etc very similar.

Schools vary hugely and a lot of the issues are reflective of the socio-economics of the area (similar to healthcare etc).

Other than the free breakfast, the secondary school that my children attend also sounds very similar.

On the contrary in my (children’s) sad experience Scotland’s state schools are horribly violent and getting much worse all the time as the education secretary is not very bright at all and couldn’t care less. The problem is being totally ignored. We went private (oh my goodness the difference in behaviour standards was staggering!) but yes I know lots of people who just removed their kids entirely and made do themselves.

I really resent paying VAT on private fees when I’d love my kids to go to state schools, but the ‘outstanding’ local option was totally unsafe.

So you’ve had a shit experience at one or two schools and now all teachers across the UK don’t teach? Bollocks!

It also depends where you live. We live in East London, and have around 5 schools in our catchment - and when we looked round them all they all offer something different. In the end we went for the one which was the most child led with less heavy focus on academia. So it might be that you do have some agency over where your kids go.

Also weird some people say they've had gun drills in their schools? We've never had any here and we're in a pretty rough area!

Also if this were true, it would mean no one leaving school would have any education - ergo no applications to college or uni. Which makes absolutely no sense.
Also I know loads of great teachers - where are they teaching if all schools are like this!

Rubbish! That might your experience, but thats not accurate. My secondary age DD, and lots of her peers, are doing very well in their state schools. They enjoy going in, they understand there are rules in life and they have great engaged teachers. Your response has really annoyed me and I'm offended on behalf of all of the fantastic teachers out there.

I'm really, really glad it's not your experience at all but I'm not extrapolating from just my experience to the entire system.

I work in a state school and in fact violence isn't much of an issue at my school - though it is at my kids' school - but it is a very, very widely spoken of issue amongst teachers and PSAs as well as in the press.

Scotland’s classrooms most violent in UK, figures suggest | STV News
Violent injuries to school staff most common in Scotland | Tes
Teachers speak out over rising pupil violence - BBC News

I could go on. And trust me I REALLY wish this wasn't the case.