Schools in the UK

[Bobajob02]

I grew up in the UK but live abroad now and my kids are in school over here. Are schools in the UK really as bad as they sound? Isolation, insane school uniform rules, detentions for the slightest misdemeanour. Not being able to take kids out of school during term time. Piled on top of that loads of exam pressure from a young age.

Do kids actually enjoy school in the UK? Is it ok if they are bright and toe the line? What about those who don’t fit the mould? Does this approach improve children’s outcomes (not just academic, but also in terms of well-being)?

It depends on the school.
Some of the academies have horrible Draconian rules and sanctions for very minor misdemeanors others are much more understanding.

If they expected 1/100 to leave and instead 8/100 left then there would still be 92/100 paying the VAT.

This is compete nonsense though.
I don't know what experience you have if schools in the UK or if your children just go to a terrible school but in my experience teachers are caring, and professional doing their best in sometimes very difficult circumstances.
Of course children learn at school. And at some schools there is too much discipline not too much

The ‘isolation’ pods at our school are coveted by pupils and teachers. They are comfortable to sit in and block out sound. We have 4 person and 1 person ones. They are used by teachers who want a quiet spot, for 1:1 teaching, exam catch ups and children who need a quiet space out of the classroom. Sometimes it is because they have been internally excluded but more often it is for other perfectly positive reasons. They are near our reception desk and our very lovely receptionist who is generous with the contents of the biscuit drawer.

I think some schools are a bit grim but definitely not all.

The reality is much worse though. Teachers don't teach anything. They just coach students to pass state exams, nothing more. Discipline isn't a concept, the kids know that they are in charge. You will get fined for taking your kids out of school, even though they don't learn anything while they're in school. It's a bizarre contradiction.

This doesn't represent the schools I attended, my dc attend or the ones I have worked it.

Not sure how this thread has turned into a VAT on schools debate but personally I am totally unmoved by this line of argument. As a matter of principle I think it's a good thing that more children are being state educated as a result of the policy and while I can sympathise with individual cases I see these as transition costs towards a more equitable system with more people invested in good quality state education. Of course you can disagree and other points of view are valid, but this was a Labour manifesto commitment and many people voted in favour of it, and in a democracy we are sometimes outvoted. I don't really understand why it continues to be considered so inherently unreasonable.

My DS is bright and toed the line but it really didn't work. He cracked up in year 9 and I had remove him. I would think very carefully about bringing a child to the UK school system right now.

What happened?

Where are you living and do your children go to state or private school?

Yawn. Are we supposed to say well done for escaping the terrible, awful UK why would anyone live here teach us oh wise and interesting one for choosing to have a life abroad where everything is just so much better we'll list all the misery here so you can feel validated and superior. Should we say that now? What would you like?

Schools vary, just as they do everywhere in the world. The media twists things and MN likes to make dramas out of nothing. Asking this question about 'schools' as if they are all identical and everyone has the exact same experience is pointless if you want a genuine answer but of course you don't.

That could be why Scottish Education has been in a rapid decline.

But their figures are based on 8 x fewer DC leaving. Whichever way you look at it, the maths doesn't add up

Not sure why no detentions is given as a positive? Bit weird isn't it?

Because far from making things more "equitable" all it's doing is increasing the gap. No money raised is going to state schools and no state schools have improved as a result.
Its just a spite tax.
Plus it's fiscally a shit policy

Wholly depends on where you live.

We are lucky to have great secondaries and grammars in our area and none have bad behavioural issues.

I personally don't have an issue with uniform policies or not being able to take kids out of school in term time (not so much primary, but definitely not secondary).

DS loves his school. Seems like all of his mates are happy too. Same story from mates with kids in the local High school.

Not sure how this thread has turned into a VAT on schools debate

It's standard now on MNs! So boring

Grammar school is loads better for this kind of thing if they can stick it. Not suitable for every kid as they work hard but definitely treated better.
Private school is the same if you can afford it.
It's just state secondary that seems to have the worst experiences.

I disagree. VAT is generally payable on non-essential goods and services and it's perfectly within the realms of reasonable to put private education in this category. If people move to state school, you get fewer privately educated children. If they don't, you get more tax revenue to invest in public services, including education. You might not like it but I don't see it as spiteful, just coming from a different perspective on the relative merits of private vs state education on which of course different views are held depending on your political persuasion.

Having private schools solely available for those who can afford it has never been fair. I think most people accept it as an option they’ve never had. I can understand that for families who suddenly can’t afford it due to the tax introduction it just seem unfair but that means they just join the majority of the population.

This is a thread about education. VAT is a tax on the education of children therefore it's relevant and pertinent in the current climate.
Stop trying to shut people down

Eh? Far from shutting people down I have actively participated in the arguably derailing side argument about VAT.

the rules don’t bother me. Children have never been issued detentions because they know how to behave.

Except you don't understand VAT.
There is no VAT on the following:
Gambling
Charity events
Boat moorings
Caviar

Are they are essential? VAT has nothing to do with essential Vs luxury .

We are now the only country to tax the education of some children without also giving tax relief for doing so.

The UK now views the education of some children as being more damaging than vapes or gambling.....Independent schools are more damaging than vapes?

You are supporting a policy which is ideologically behind Nigeria.

None of the above is my political pov it is just mere fact.

Except you don't understand VAT.
There is no VAT on the following:
Gambling
Charity events
Boat moorings
Caviar

Are they are essential? VAT has nothing to do with essential Vs luxury .

We are now the only country to tax the education of some children without also giving tax relief for doing so.

The UK now views the education of some children as being more damaging than vapes or gambling.....Independent schools are more damaging than vapes?

You are supporting a policy which is ideologically behind Nigeria.

None of the above is my political pov it is just mere fact.

I work in a secondary school ( a good non-selective academy). Yes there is uniform, yes there are some quirky rules (for reasons), poor, inappropriate & disruptive behaviour does result in isolation & in some cases suspension. Detentions are for repeated missed homework, or repeated lateness or if messing about/not completing the class work without reason. However, homework intervention comes first before detention. Taking kids out of school has been a thing for a while, it’s a bloody nightmare trying to get year 10’s & 11’s in GCSE year caught up when they miss classes as holidays are cheaper. My school also offers free cereal & porridge daily, so many lunch & after school clubs from IT, trampolining, debate & music to name a few. We have support rooms, sensory rooms, many teachers who go above & beyond, fantastic pastoral support available 24/7, SEN support, the list is endless. None of this ever gets mentioned.