Swearing on a children's chat group by the coach. Am I wrong to find this objectionable?

[Momoftwoscallywags]

Just want a reality check.

My DS (13 yrs old) has played a team sport for a few years and this year the coaches have set up a chat just for the players and coaches only. As parents we were informed of this and was assured that all messages sent to the kids would be appropriate.

Anyway, after the game at the weekend was abandoned due to the aggressive behaviour of the opposing team, one of the coaches (he is new to the team this season, so haven't met him) put a message on the kids/coaches chat referring to the game and used the word "Fuck" twice in relation to the other teams behaviour and what the kids should do the next time something like this happens.

In my opinion, I think the use of the swear words was really inappropriate. I did deliberate in saying something as I felt there may be some comeback on my son but, as my Husband said, sometimes you do need to stand by your boundaries.

So, I sent a message to one of the longer standing coaches, for whom I had immense respect for, basically saying I objected to the swearing, as it is not something I expected from a coach who was coaching children.

His response was a little disappointing, he basically said get over myself as it's the nature of the game but condescendingly conceded to say something to the other coaches about toning it down.

So now this feeling of being gaslighted won't go away and I feel that, as coaches, they should be able to "break the cycle" of thinking it's okay to swear in front of children. Am I being unreasonable?

It is absolutely not relevant that most 13 year olds will be saying a lot worse. It's about boundaries and this blurs the boundaries.

My son, when he was 13 was often in trouble at school for swearing. Now, he is neuro-diverse but so may other kids on the team. ND kids mimic behavious as they struggle with social cues. Someone in a position of responsibility such as a coach swearing blurs the boundaries and kids then can't distinguish between what is appropriate and when.

That is just one example.

Having a group for just coaches and children is also a major red flag. Communication at this age should be with or via parents. It leads to a situation where grooming could happen.

Of course there should be no one on one texting between coach and players.

However, it is very common now for teachers to email and communicate directly with students virtually (even on a one-on-one basis). I don’t see the issue with coaches doing it.

Emails to and from a work email address to a school student email address can be monitored in a way that mobile phone communications can't.

At academy level we recently ( I say this as coaches are paid and the set up is more "professional" than at grassroots) we had an opposition coach have a stand up argument with our female head coach, after they'd lost and he'd had a tantrum. She had to tell him to stop swearing in front of children.

Our coach then messaged the parents to apologise for the behaviour the players, and us, witnessed. She didn't feel the need to swear in her message, but I imagine the air was blue once she was away from the players and parents on the day.

I forwarded her message to my DD, which is an appropriate way to pass on communication from coaches. There's no need for a players and coaches group, which excludes parents.

Swearing isn't great but the existence of the group as a whole is the major issue. Like someone said, its existence sets a precedent and leaves current and future players at the club, vulnerable. Teachers communicating with pupils on a platform that can be monitored is appropriate. WhatsApp is encrypted and cannot be externally monitored.

My DD has played a sport for a team, since she was 7. She is now 12 and there has never been any "players and coaches" groups on WhatsApp or anywhere else. She has played at grassroots, county, and academy level and the various organisations have all followed safeguarding rules, regardless of whether the coaches are friends, strangers, paid or volunteers.

This group needs to be reported to the club, sooner rather than later.

There's no need for a players and coaches group, which excludes parents.
Swearing isn't great but the existence of the group as a whole is the major issue. Like someone said, its existence sets a precedent and leaves current and future players at the club, vulnerable

Absolutely this. Ds2 is 15, all of the info for his football is on the parents/coaches whatsapp.

Ds1 is nearly 18, in the second year of A Levels. His sport is basketball but it was only from the new season September just gone that they've moved into communicating directly with the players!

I find that far too overprotective if I’m honest.

We cannot expect young adults to be independent if we they cannot even communicate with their own coaches at 17 years old.

Many, many posters have told @Momoftwoscallywagsthat the real issue here is the WhatsApp group chat between adults and children. A group that excludes parents. This blurs the boundaries between the coaches and players. Once boundaries are blurred, the door can start to open to more sinister behaviour. @Momoftwoscallywagsdoesn’t seem to have taken this on board.

Both my teen dc are involved in grassroots sports. My DH is the head coach for one and parent support for the other. My DH never communicates with the young people on the team on phones or email. All comms is between coaches and parents. Key messages are discussed face to face at training sessions. There is no need for group chats between young people and adults.

My DH is very careful with Safeguarding. No lifts for other players even if our dc is in the car. Even if the player is the child of friends/ neighbours of ours.

No training sessions on his own. If another coach isn’t available to be present, he has a few DBS checked parents who will step in and stay.

My other teen dc is involved in a different sport and again, safeguarding is really tight. As it should be.

@Momoftwoscallywagsyou need to report this group chat to the Safeguarding officer at the club. Do it anonymously if need be. If it doesn’t stop, report to your local league safeguarding officer. This is very, very suspicious.

They are comminicating with their own coaches at 17 - that's exactly what my post says.

It is, however, the first year they have.

This is general safeguarding policy across sports to protect young people. Such measures were put in place after investigations into sexual abuse in sports.

My eldest teen dc is also now Year 13 (so almost 18) and now communicates himself with adults on his team/ his coaches. This is ok.

@Momoftwoscallywagsis talking about 13 year old children communicating with adults in a way that excludes their parents. That’s never ok.

I really hope @Momoftwoscallywags that you contact the club’s safeguarding lead about this. It’s not just that the group has been set up in the first place (yes, awful, and really difficult to see any excuse for this failing) but that one of the coaches is trying to ‘hang with the lads’ or whatever by swearing on it (ie breaking adult/child boundaries) and that this has been brushed off. A whole sports kit of red flags!

The reason we have all these apparently restrictive boring safeguarding rules is that abusive people don’t turn up with ‘Abuser!’ tattooed on their foreheads. They very often (mostly?) come across as perfectly normal people, friendly, intelligent, helpful, nice. The children in this group are still very young (much though they would deny that) and need to be protected by applying those rules.

I can't get myself massively worked up about a coaches+kids WhatsApp chat where everything can be seen by everybody: a WhatsApp chat of this nature isn't going to be more dangerous than the in-person training sessions!

I would wonder why particularly you would want to have such a chat though, and it might make it easier to shift to one-on-one messaging (I don't think there's really a need for coaches to have the kids' numbers full stop; certainly not all of the coaches need them).

@ApplebyArrows
Those groups provide a gateway for coaches to start messaging children privately.

I would not consent to my child being in a chat group with kids and coaches only. It breaches every safeguarding code there is. I couldn't care less about swearing, but we are all different. The coach's response is concerning. It is well known that some football and other sports coaches are there to get access to children so you need to be vigilant. I would kick up a stink but be prepared for your child to be booted out of the club.

It is because it gives the coaches access to the kid's mobile numbers and that makes them open to private messaging that isn't monitored.

The swearing wouldn't worry me. All the kids will be doing it too. If your DS was younger I wouldn't be happy but at 13: it's okay.
What's not okay is having a group chat for coaches and kids only. While I do understand that some parents can be a massive PITA constantly on group chats moaning to the coaches about x y or a it's still not okay to exclude parents. My DH used to coach a football team for kids and he said it's against FA guidance for a group chat with no parental involvement.
My DD is involved in a sport that has a group chat. She is 17 and we are still on there as are all parents who have children under 18..
You've complained now so it's done but I would ask other parents how they feel about the group chat. If they agree it's inappropriate perhaps you can approach the coaches as a group and insist they add parents to the chat.

If they agree it's inappropriate perhaps you can approach the coaches as a group and insist they add parents to the chat.

That is not enough. The chat should not exist.
And the coaches now have the phone numbers of all the children in the group.

I’m going to make this very clear…adult coaches should not have access to the mobile phone numbers of young people. Ever.

Edited to add: the only exception is if it is your own child or family member.

This belies the culture, and let's you know what happens when the responsible adults aren't observed by other adults outside the club.

I would pursue.

I'm a coach for a different sport. I've lost track of the number of hoops I've jumped through regarding child safeguarding for training, disclosures, data control etc.

Adult coaches/ club members absolutely should never, ever, ever have access to the contact details of children. Within the club we have details of emergency contacts etc but access to these details are strictly controlled and all communication with the kids is via their nominated parents or guardians.

I would have thought the necessity of these sorts of controls would be blindingly obvious.

Absolute chav comment.

There should be no adults and underage children group like this. I bet the Football Association wouldn’t be happy.

Also, it’s ’you’ve gone’ not ‘you’ve went’.

It doesn't actually matter if the parents think it's ok. This club and it's coaches are almost certainly breaking it's own and it's national governing body's policies and codes of conduct in multiple ways. Or at least they would be if it's any sport that I have any knowledge of. I just checked my own organisation's rule book to make sure I wasn't making stuff up and I'm not.
Individuals don't get to pick and choose which parts of policy they follow. If you coach for a club that is under the umbrella of a national body you commit to upholding their standards, whether paid or a volunteer. If you don't like it you can lobby the organisation for change or you can leave, but you absolutely don't get to ride rough shod over nationally accepted safeguarding practice because you think it's restrictive or the parents don't mind.
I am not saying the coaches at this club are predators or anything. Most people who coach youth sport are of course decent people who love their sport and want to help others. But unfortunately we know that there has been a huge amount of damage done by the minority who are not decent people. And as a PP said, they're not obvious. Nobody shows up and says "Hey, I'm a paedophile. I'd love to join your club as it will give me great access to and influence over young kids" do they? Safeguarding policies and procedures are there to protect the children primarily of course but they also protect the coaches, clubs and governing bodies .But only if they are applied to everyone. These coaches may well be perfectly innocent but the blurring of boundaries leaves the door open for anyone who isn't. At best they are very naive and inadequately trained in Safeguarding. Failure to adhere to policy is often not restricted to one area either and this is not the sign of a well run club.

So if your 13 year old kid’s teacher used that kind of language in class, you’d be ok with it?

Of course teenagers use that kind of language, but as adults we lead by example. I swear in front of my teenager. She could swear in front of me and I’d be fine with it (she won’t do it and that’s ok too) but she absolutely knows never to do it in front of or at another adult, especially not my mother.

This whole thing smacks of “boys will be boys”. These coaches are supposed to be in a profession setting.

There should be no world where a coach is in a private chat with children anyway. I wouldn’t have my child on there without me being present.

I was going to say that. Emails to a student from a teacher would be via the school system or via Teams etc which is accessible and monitored by the school.

If everything can be seen by everyone there should be no issue with parents being part of the chat.

Of course the children will be saying just as bad amongst themselves, but they're also (hopefully) learning there's a time and a place, and this isn’t it.

On that basis it's OK for teachers to swear in class?

A chat group for coaches and children only raises lots of concerns for me OP.