To Think that Grad & Apprenticeships are now only for Diversity Candidates

[reallyreallycrazy]

Slight hyperbole but not far off.

Yes, of course I suppose my DS should be appreciative of his 'white privilege' (I do detest the term though), but he's been applying to over 100 x spring & summer internships and apprenticeships.

Invariably, he finds that lots of programmes are only open to black/female/social mobility/ND candidates. In one recent case - a global consultancy - there were NO openings for anyone outside of these categories.

And today, on LinkedIn, he forwarded me several links from leading banks reaching out about apprenticeships etc. In most photos, you might be lucky to spot 1-2 white males and in the video of one, there were not a single white male (or female for that matter).

I get that these firms need to do outreach to disadvantaged groups but if you look at the population level percentage of the various group categories, this really has swung too far the other way.

I get that many of these organisations have years to catch up with diversity hires but to try to rebalance in such an aggressive way and in a short space of time, makes it very difficult for young, white males (unless they have qualified for 'free school meals') to get a foot in the door which is especially tough in an incredibly tough grad market as it is.

I’m in the Civil Service, just checked our Apprentices for this year … and I can only base this on a picture.

7 white men
5 white women
2 Black / Asian Women
2 Black / Asian Men

Not sure about Disability, or Demographics … but, having been part of the process, there were no “targets”

It’s a competitive market … I just advertised a lower graded role, and got 250 applications

The photos are always like that and have been for some years.

they’re not a reflection of the reality of who gets in.

a friend of my DC got into the atomic energy grad programme. She was the only non Oxbridge and one of very few females.

In banking it is the reality, same in insurance, at least what I've heard from people I know who work in global, top UK banks/insurance.

Not everyone, obviously, but these people - very senior - commented on how out of 12 and 15 intake, only 1 and 2 males respective. All others diversity/females.

Oh and the programmes DS mentioned, there were NO openings so no opportunity to even apply unless you were female/black/social mobility.

I work in finance - there is a huge problem with getting disadvantaged students in. Plenty of places for white men and women.

There is no issue here - your son just isn’t able to handle the competition.

Share them, then. Go on.

I'm happy to then send you plenty he can apply for if you let us know his basic details such as type of role / entry level / area.

YANBU - my DD is a high flying maths A level student in a state school who has proactively sought out various maths schemes for state school students. However she hasn’t a hope of getting in - indeed many she’s been told not to even bother - as she is not black/a refugee/school meals/pupil premium etc etc Such a shame that smart kids like this miss out.

Thats a really unnecessary comment and not correct either.

The reality is that AI CV filters mean that the intakes are far more diverse than ever before which is not a problem until it no longer reflects the make up of society.

The reason for this is that it's much more likely for white, male middle class candidates to be successful through other routes. You're talking as if your son will have no chance of getting a position in future. Statistically that's unlikely. White males generally do very well in grad scheme applications or just open applications. The point of offering internships and apprenticeships to disadvantaged groups is that it gives them a better chance when it comes to the latter type of application or an alternative way to get a foot in the door. That's why they are not usually open to candidates who have those advantages already.

I work in the public sector and the vast majority of our grads this year are white, middle class females - not great. If other areas are achieving better diversity, I'm all for that.

My son is brown. He got into a grad scheme in finance after over a 100 applications. He has now converted that into a job at a global consultancy for 2026. His grades at A levels were 4 A stars and he got a first in his degree. He is currently doing a masters at Oxbridge.

Do you want to claim my son is a diversity hire?

As a non-white woman, I objected to these things 25 years ago

I never applied for any of them because I did not want to be the diversity hire

Unfortunately, these things have become entrenched. I was even greeted with surprise recently when I explained to someone - who really should know me better - that I would never apply for those things.

It's really annoying for me because I find it reinforces a stereotype on two levels in my case

As for what happens to the next generation, I'm sorry to say I don't know. There will be stuff that your son can apply for hopefully? So places who expressed that they will give preference on a DEI basis but they won't be exclusive about it.

I am definitely not the only person who thinks it's got ridiculous but it's the kind of view you won't hear expressed very often. I worry about typing it out on here! People have been trained to shout "prejudice" at everything from school. And it gets worse at university from what I can see. It's batshit.

I suspect it will get worse because it takes organisations about 20 years to catch up with what everyone else is thinking. Especially if they're following government!

I wish your son all the best in his job hunting 💫

It’s almost as bad being female now. Dd was filling in an application and points were awarded for various things. She managed to get 1 measly point for going to a comprehensive school, but that was it. More points were awarded for refugee, free school meals, anxiety etc etc. You could only apply if you had I think 12 points.

No matter about academic profile - that was hidden!

She was told to not bother was she? Lol.

OP will because she can’t accept that candidates like your son can be both higher achieving than her child AND brown.

What are your son's grades and where is he studying now? And does he do Further Maths? Because that seems pretty important.

Excuse me? Yes - in many cases, these are the stated eligibility requirements. She ticks one box (state school) and that’s it. She’s not black, not a refugee, not a traveller, not disabled, not estranged from us, etc etc etc etc

God you are rude. ‘Not able to handle the competition’? The issue here is that the OP’s son isn’t even deemed eligible to enter the competition.

Yes this. He can definitely handle the competition but a lot of opportunities are closed.

Of course I'm not saying that people from diverse groups can't be top of the class and the best, not at all, but I've heard some banks saying they want 20% diversity hires which is an awfully high number given the fabric of the population.

I know lots of white males with 4A*s and even masters (with both degrees from 'target' unis) who have not managed to get into any spring or summer internships.

I’m in Australia, large, global organisation, and my area of it takes on 100 grads each year, and 50-70 interns. We try to get our intake to 50:50 male:female/other (broad definition) by making at least 50:50 offers after interview. Our pool of applicants is more like 60:40, because more students who take finance and related degrees tend to be male, so you could say that it’s slightly better odds to get a job, if you identify as a female.

Is it really true that in the UK a job application initial screening form can stop you progressing through if you are not a certain ethnicity? Am I misunderstanding you? Otherwise how would he know about the restrictions in that global consultancy? That blows my mind.

Thank you, balanced post.

And of course, as stated earlier, I agree with outreach programmes and of course there are extremely high performers from these backgrounds, as there are from all categories (bell curve) but it just seems very hopeless but trying to make sure he keeps morale up!

What is a disadvantaged student, please?

@Holluschickie your son had the grades clearly! As did I. Which is partly why I didn't want to apply for anything that advertised itself as particularly wanting women and extra points if it was a woman of colour, back in those days.

I don't think of anyone as being a diversity hire unless they applied under a diversity scheme. But it has also been pointed out to me by people appointed under these schemes that they might as well take advantage of what's offered to them, and I have no way of knowing if I was chosen the interview because of my sex or my skin colour.

I know some people think theytrying to address centuries of racism - but doing it through through diversity hiring schemes is making things worse, not better. Why people have got it in their heads that they can fix the past I really don't know. Why can't we all just move forward?

I think that's a kind interpretation of what's going on really - DEI is such a massive industry there's so much work available in it now. That's the real problem - job creation will get you everywhere!

As long as we are spinning on this ball of rock, we need to create nonsense jobs. sigh.

I better go and do some work myself! Yes, it's nonsense!

Sorry but as someone who recently looked after grads in banking they were still predominantly white middle class men. The ads might only be showing as open to certain groups if they've already received tonnes of applications from white men and they're trying to encourage others to apply.

It's a tough market and it's hard to get in is the issue, nothing to do with 'diversity hires'. And when your son does get a job, he's more likely to be rated higher on his performance and be paid more than equally performing peers from under-represented groups.

And what about white WORKING CLASS males ( not free school meals or benefits)

It’s not about the “colour” of the candidate - and frankly diversity hirings are none too keen on certain ethnicities as they are a bit too successful for their liking (see Harvard row).

It’s the nonsense that de-prioritises or eliminates candidates no matter how suitable they are.

ds went for a publishing interview. The (Haitch)R person actually said “The last thing we need is white Oxbridge males”. Ds, who is shyness and awkwardness personified, was really embarrassed and felt he’d only been invited in so somebody could be nasty to him. He didn’t apply for a single other graduate scheme after that for fear of encountering the same. (He did get a job in the end!)

I work at the kind of organisation you are describing.

I can put your mind at rest - our offices are still full of white men.

And though happily our HR are focused on increasing diversity, there are still plenty of white men (and women) coming through our grad schemes.

I have a very ambitious son, he happens to be white. I have no concerns about his future.

If a minority women gets a place ahead of your son I can guarantee she’ll be better qualified than him.