To Think that Grad & Apprenticeships are now only for Diversity Candidates

[reallyreallycrazy]

Slight hyperbole but not far off.

Yes, of course I suppose my DS should be appreciative of his 'white privilege' (I do detest the term though), but he's been applying to over 100 x spring & summer internships and apprenticeships.

Invariably, he finds that lots of programmes are only open to black/female/social mobility/ND candidates. In one recent case - a global consultancy - there were NO openings for anyone outside of these categories.

And today, on LinkedIn, he forwarded me several links from leading banks reaching out about apprenticeships etc. In most photos, you might be lucky to spot 1-2 white males and in the video of one, there were not a single white male (or female for that matter).

I get that these firms need to do outreach to disadvantaged groups but if you look at the population level percentage of the various group categories, this really has swung too far the other way.

I get that many of these organisations have years to catch up with diversity hires but to try to rebalance in such an aggressive way and in a short space of time, makes it very difficult for young, white males (unless they have qualified for 'free school meals') to get a foot in the door which is especially tough in an incredibly tough grad market as it is.

The thing is that white men can only apply to one of the jobs. Doesn't mean no one else can

By the look of that if you were an ethnic minority woman you can apply for all 4

Have you checked though... This seems to be listed as for women only on that list but not on the company website...

https://nomuracampus.tal.net/vx/mobile-0/appcentre-ext/brand-4/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/1/opp/1294-2026-Global-Markets-Digital-Office-Summer-Internship-Quants-Strats-London-For-2027-Graduates/en-GB

I think a bit of background would be helpful in understanding your responses.

OP is rude—whining about her son’s job prospects and insinuating that others are less well qualified than he. That is quite rude.

The diversity story that sticks out in my mind is from my daughter's school where pupils were being called out got class to approve particulars photos or have photos taken to be used in an external school promotional material.

Anyway there was a black lad who was very good in the school rugby team and sure enough he was called out of class and everyone assumed it was for a rugby photo approval

Anyway when he came back to class he was fuming. Apparently they already had "enough" diversity faces for sports photos but no black faces for the music photos, so they asked him to pose for a photo with a trumpet, when he had never picked one up before in his life.

His classmates thought that this was hilarious (as kids do) but he was genuinely pissed off for being used for the colour of his skin rather than his actual ability (in rugby) just to tick a diversity box.

Same as the Bar Council with their inclusive intern scheme that is only inclusive providing you’re not white.

How ridiculous! It's absurd that some people think this kind of thing is progressive!

True.

But an interesting point, I think, is that some cultures place so much emphasis on academics - crammer courses, not being allowed to socialise, talented at sport suddenly dropping out when it gets to GCSE/A-levels [we have a very large Indian/Chinese group of students ] - that they become quite unidimensional.

I think it's race to the top with ever more pressures for kids to keep up with those who have parents who expect their kids to focus solely on academics (and music is usually considered 'permissible' in this sense). It becomes unhealthy.

I'm sure we would all agree that IQ is on a bell curve and that certain people/cultures are not brighter than others, but it's more that some cultures emphasising working so hard on the academics (4-5 hours after school every day!!) but don't do the other things - i.e. the DofE, sports, socialising etc.

I also think - and this applies to everyone regardless of background, sex, colour etc - if you have been working so hard on academics, making sure to do all past papers multiple times etc and put in your all, for some people they will have reached their plateau.

For others, who perhaps have come from families where being more 'well-rounded' (I acknowledge perhaps this is a loaded term) is being encouraged, and these kids will not have reached their top level of performance at A-level or even at uni but might blossom at work and start racing ahead.

So maybe, it's right that not only Astar Astar Astar Astar candidates should get all the top grad jobs. It's about the stretch and ability to grow from where you are and diversity, as I mentioned before, comes in many more shapes and sizes than what you can see in front of you.

She's entitled to be disappointed that her son is being barred from some opportunities because of his race and gender etc.

Does he not deserve to be?

What about if you actually are female?

Oh so now its not white bots generally who are getting hurt just working class ones? Surely they would be covered under social mobility schemes? The OP is specifically complaining that her not working class don isn’t getting the advantage not that poor white boys aren’t.

I was sat in a university recently, waiting for my class to start, and I was observing a group of student nurses, every single person in a group of about 30, were black or Asian. This is in a very 'white' city.

How do they prove whether one grew up rich or poor or anything in between? I moved out of my parents at 16 and there’s people out there who are completely estranged from their parents.

Is the growing up rich/poor thing another thing you can just lie about?

But he’s not. The whole field of all jobs isn’t (possibly) available to him but so what? The previously disadvantaged, outsider, applicants havd for once in history been given a slight advantage so that massively white top heavy groups can try to rebalance their books now as they face an increasingly muced population. Maybe the nonwhite, female, disabled customer base would like to see beanch managers snd financial counselors who look like them? Maybe they want an international (refugee) representative because those candidates have more to offer than mr standard type. Thats a business decision. Why are you complaining about it. You didn’t complain when the old boys club simply delivered your jobs to you directly by shutting outsiders out. You thought it was merit but it was based on artificial exclusion just the same.

But lots of kids from all ethnicities manage to get straight A*s while also engaging in extracurricular stuff and socialising etc. It isn't the case that v you have to choose between being "well rounded" and being "academic" - many families will encourage both. Perhaps those are the kids who are hoovering up all the job opportunities?

So now what you are complaining about is that even the Indians and Chinese who had better grades than your son don't deserve it because they are not well rounded; according to your definition?
You would be wrong.

Has he really applied to 100? What feedback has he had. Maybe needs to make less but higher quality applications (and worry less about not seeing anyone who looks like him on recruitment materials).

My employer switched to only offering widening access internships as previously all the spots were taken up by existing members of staff family and friends who generally didn't need the insight to the industry or a leg up. No restriction on who can apply for the actual jobs on graduation.

DDs grad scheme has a diversity internship (but takes anyone if spaces not filled). Not sure doing the internship gives much advantage as her cohort is still very white and middle class.

All for the workforce being more representative of the communities they serve.

My cousin’s national employer moved a most of its large local section from his very deprived area with only a small black/asian community, to the midlands in order to increase the ‘diversity’ of its recruitment (their target was 40% BAME despite this being much higher than the UK population). His very deprived area is now missing one of its few large employers, and even fewer local employers of graduates.

Funny how they don’t include white British under ‘BAME’ in areas like London where they are now a minority….

Funny how they also do this despite positive discrimination being illegal unless there are justified reasons for a specific sex or race (eg sex of carers needed, or actor playing a Chinese character).

Not sure doing the internship gives much advantage as her cohort is still very white

Why wouldn’t it be? The UK is an overwhelmingly white population.

Thats unnecessarily rude and you are making a lot of assumptions about me. I'm a woman and mixed race, so presumably I would be eligible for some of these schemes, but I don't think they're a good idea. They just cause resentment and push more people towards reform and other right wing groups, which I'm very worried about. Plus I don't think current discrimination is a very fair remedy for past discrimination. I would much prefer places just did some kind of blind hiring. I think the line about wanting people who look like them is rather odd, when I go to the bank I personally couldn't care less if the person I am dealing with looks like me, I care if they can do their job well.

YANBU. It is important that schemes are open to all, and that underrepresented groups are encouraged to apply, but not allowing others to apply because they are the wrong skin colour is just racial discrimination. Racial discrimination is wrong in any form.

I used to think that this was just privilege-complaining until my previous workplace had a new CEO. She was determined to change our balance to be more reflective of society. As a result, experienced white males were managed out and replaced by candidates chosen with at least as much emphasis on race/gender than their knowledge of our industry. When I was recruiting at that organisation, we were told to turn down a suitable young white male and readvertise the position as otherwise we would not hit our targets. And yes, the female candidate we eventually hired underperformed in the role.

So yes, it does happen and it is much worse at entry level positions.

We are talking about industries here that are very much dominated by white men, and rely heavily on "old boys" networks. In my opinion, some of these schemes are quite performative or tokenistic, so employers can be seen to address the issues that exist in the industry. I expect that white, male dominance is still prevelant, though - regardless of a couple of photos. If anyone does receive a genuine opportunity that they otherwise would have been excluded from though, I am all for it.

question:

if two males -maybe your son or maybe not and a.n.other guy - were up for the same post - final 2 - exactly the same demographics (white male same age same social-economic backgrounds hell even same accent hair and eye colour) qualifications /grades / scores etc -

both exceptional at interview… really nothing between them …

except the other person has a disability that whilst it doesn’t affect his abilities and he’s equally capable of doing the job as the other candidate - means the employer has to make a set of adjustments - (he can’t just slot into a normally equipped desk for example)

Who do you think the employer would choose?

Discrimination against white people is ok in your books?