To Think that Grad & Apprenticeships are now only for Diversity Candidates

[reallyreallycrazy]

Slight hyperbole but not far off.

Yes, of course I suppose my DS should be appreciative of his 'white privilege' (I do detest the term though), but he's been applying to over 100 x spring & summer internships and apprenticeships.

Invariably, he finds that lots of programmes are only open to black/female/social mobility/ND candidates. In one recent case - a global consultancy - there were NO openings for anyone outside of these categories.

And today, on LinkedIn, he forwarded me several links from leading banks reaching out about apprenticeships etc. In most photos, you might be lucky to spot 1-2 white males and in the video of one, there were not a single white male (or female for that matter).

I get that these firms need to do outreach to disadvantaged groups but if you look at the population level percentage of the various group categories, this really has swung too far the other way.

I get that many of these organisations have years to catch up with diversity hires but to try to rebalance in such an aggressive way and in a short space of time, makes it very difficult for young, white males (unless they have qualified for 'free school meals') to get a foot in the door which is especially tough in an incredibly tough grad market as it is.

Now this makes me fume.

Just because you didn’t have free school meals you are not living a life of luxury and privilege. Ridiculous.

There’s this very nasty narrative (indeed seen on this thread) that white boys are entitled, have had their time and goody if they’re sidelined.

As for white working-class boys - who needs them? They’re somewhere vague outside the M25 anyway…

White artists have won MOBO awards. The music has to be of black origin , the winning artists can be of any colour. They're awards for a particular style of music.

People can open shops to sell whatever they want- bookshops that only sell female authors; bars that cater to gay men. If No-one is interested the business will close again.

Free school meals are for kids whose parents earn less than 7.4k.
please check your privileges with that hefty 8k salary you bigots

Families don’t live on £7.4k though, at that salary they also get universal credit and possibly housing benefit. They could have a lot more to live on than a family on a higher salary - for example if they had a mortgage on a home in negative equity that needs repairs. Check your own privilege before deciding other people are bigots for understanding more about how difficult financial circumstances can work.

Indeed and an article published today said the NHS management training scheme more likely to reject minority ethnic applicants. Given the high percentage of NHS workforce that are from ethnic minority backgrounds, I think it's reasonable to expect that the leadership should in some way reflect the workforce. And it does not. Really does not

These schemes are imperfect, but I still support their existence. The internship schemes at not designed to exclude white males, they are supposed to encourage people who would never have applied in the first place, rather than people like your son who are already applying in their first year of Uni.

Similarly, if he's applying anyway, why does your son need to see people like him in the (stock) photos? He must know already that people like him get these jobs, or he wouldn't have thought to apply.

Discrimination in actual recruitment for paid work is illegal, so if your son has proof of that he should see an employment solicitor.

There is a problem for white working class boys, that is absolutely true and it should be tackled. Hence newer schemes looking at social mobility. These schemes are very hard to get right and they also cause upset, it's difficult to ensure the right metrics are used. Free school meals and benefits claims may well be insufficient as metrics, they might well exclude children whose parents have had better paid blue collar jobs but wouldn't otherwise apply. Is a working class boy in Tower Hamlets more likely to apply for a job in banking because he has some idea of what it involves, as opposed to a working class boy in Consett who doesn't? Likely, yes.

Do schemes for women and ethnic minorities attract a greater proportion of these groups from more affluent backgrounds? Yes, almost certainly.

So, these schemes are imperfect. But perfect shouldn't be the enemy of good, and we shouldn't default back to a system of 'white, middle class men must know best because otherwise they wouldn't have these jobs in the first place'; just because designing good schemes is hard.

Does it reflect the workforce of thirty years ago though? Because surely that is the relevant workforce against whom the current group of senior management competed?

And why does the NHS workforce not reflect the UK population?

There is a problem for white working class boys, that is absolutely true and it should be tackled. Hence newer schemes looking at social mobility.

They ignore physical mobility - that white working class boys cannot afford the travel and rent to move away to university or to do an internship in a city they have no contacts with. Or that they are not even aware of these opportunities because companies do not set up in their area or move away from it in order to promote ‘diversity’.

This is likely due to all the years of minorities being excluded from many professions due to unconscious and conscious bias. I am a mother to a mixed race son who got fantastic results in his GCSE's last year. He has been trying for the last 8 months to get an apprenticeship with no success. He's not come across one application that states it is for black/female/disabled applicants only though. That's discriminatory in itself. Due to the industry that I am in, I am aware that many businesses have pledged that they will hire a certain amount of ethnic groups and other marginalised groups, as for so long they have been overlooked. I would encourage your son to continue to look for things and the right thing will come along at the right time.

I suppose I am bound to feel a bit sick reading this as my ordinary white son has just got a job, doing what he wants to do, at a London firm, having got 4 A*s, internships every year and an oxbridge degree. His skin colour and sex don’t appear to have held him back. He got several jobs in fact, but picked the one that suited him.

If a job at the top end firms appears to be out of reach, because an organisation has decided to recruit in a particular way or because you’ve missed out on that application round (my son obviously applied for multiple things he didn’t get as well as those he did) then go and get a job somewhere else. If you were in the running for those very high end jobs, you will get something else. Based on my son’s experience, a lot of this is hot air. If someone tells you ‘it’s pointless to apply for X’ have a good look at who is saying it, their real experience and why. What they may mean is ‘I didn’t get in’ or ‘it took me six months to get something’ but it’s much more exciting to say that female doctors from families of Indian origin aren’t good enough (I’ve heard that said) or various vapid statements about ‘diversity’.

Exactly - senior positions will in time reflect the make-up of the workforce. But if you’re 60 then when starting out your peers would not have been very diverse.

Your son’s experience does not prove this doesn’t exist

I am aware that many businesses have pledged that they will hire a certain amount of ethnic groups and other marginalised groups, as for so long they have been overlooked.

‘Overlooked for so long’ or because the demographics of the UK population has been undergoing huge and rapid change? Don’t believe the BBC historical dramas - the non-white ethnic groups made up only a tiny proportion of the UK population until forty/fifty years ago.

So your answer to right the wrong of historical discrimination against coloured minorities is to recreate discrimination today against the white majority today.

You do realise that the white children of today are not responsible for the discrimination that took place in the past.

I can say that publishing is really bad. There seems a concerted effort to eliminate men full stop, no matter what their creed or colour (trans excepted - but then I suppose they are women (!) ).

You’d have thought in the interests of diversity they would want a few males, but no. Not welcome.

I was obviously joking really couldn’t give less of shit if you or anyone think I’m privileged, I don’t play the sob story olympics, my employer thinks I’m mixed race and bisexual, I have zero qualifications or previous work experience and working a pretty cushty job considering my poor life decisions as a youngster

I am privileged and technically stole an opportunity from someone who isn’t with my bullshittery😉 oh well you do what you have to in 2025

@pikkumyy77 - you’ve got all the cliches there. Old boys club? So every white boy from no matter where is definitely taking advantage of the old boys club ?

Why do you want to demonise and punish blameless individuals?

Betcha call a dreaded man when you need a removal company or your drains are blocked. They’re good enough for that, eh?

My brown son applied for more than a 100 . Feedback was that he didn't suit the corporate culture and was rubbish at personality tests. So he worked harder at those and learned how to " fit in". And was successful.

Meanwhile my DD who didn't work quite as hard and doesn't have as good grades didnt get on a grad scheme. Her fault as she didn't put in that effort. We dont whine about racism. She will try again after acquiring more skills.

Well the percentage of BME at senior levels in the NHS still doesn't relect the overall percentage of BME 10 years ago.

As to why we like to recruit people from overseas to do the lower paid jobs in the NHS ... that's a whole other thread

Also, I hate to bore on about it but many target unis and grad schemes are looking for FM, especially for analyst roles.

If your kid didnt take FM and has not got on a grad scheme, it's not because they are white. It could be because they didn't take FM.

it takes more than ten years to reach senior roles (and then they stay in them until retirement). And it is not just lower paid jobs that are recruited from abroad. 48% of UK FY2 doctors this year failed to find specialist training and were left unemployed whilst thousands of overseas doctors were recruited to specialist training posts instead.

But if no or very few grad schemes have openings for white males then how can all these white males get on them?

So in the wider sense of privilege she has already won the lottery simply by NOT being black, a refugee, a traveller, disabled, PP, in care etc etc.

How many more advantages do you think she needs to be given to make up for not ticking boxes? Super model good looks, perfect pitch, parents best friends with the CEO of international companies, generous financial legacy from granny, athletic prowess …………

Why do you believe that grad schemes dont have opps for white males? They do!

Regardless of OP"s whining.

I’m in medicine and white men (not “males”) are definitely still well represented amongst newly qualified doctors. All interview shortlisting is done with redacted application forms - we don’t have access to EDI date at this stage.