To Think that Grad & Apprenticeships are now only for Diversity Candidates

[reallyreallycrazy]

Slight hyperbole but not far off.

Yes, of course I suppose my DS should be appreciative of his 'white privilege' (I do detest the term though), but he's been applying to over 100 x spring & summer internships and apprenticeships.

Invariably, he finds that lots of programmes are only open to black/female/social mobility/ND candidates. In one recent case - a global consultancy - there were NO openings for anyone outside of these categories.

And today, on LinkedIn, he forwarded me several links from leading banks reaching out about apprenticeships etc. In most photos, you might be lucky to spot 1-2 white males and in the video of one, there were not a single white male (or female for that matter).

I get that these firms need to do outreach to disadvantaged groups but if you look at the population level percentage of the various group categories, this really has swung too far the other way.

I get that many of these organisations have years to catch up with diversity hires but to try to rebalance in such an aggressive way and in a short space of time, makes it very difficult for young, white males (unless they have qualified for 'free school meals') to get a foot in the door which is especially tough in an incredibly tough grad market as it is.

Is that filtering for a category such as British Asian or including international students/recent entries into the UK? The devil's in the detail of what you're asking with Power BI (which is why I get panicked management assuming one thing when if they waited half an hour, they wouldn't need to send 34 shrieking emails).

ETA Have looked. So they are from applications submitted via UCAS. But you can't see if the applicants had entered the UK two and a half years before or whether they've been here since birth, or stack multiple filters to drill down to the finer details.

@reallyreallycrazy you would still be frazzled if a white working class boy got a placement over your son.

You claim that Chinese and Indian students are studying too much, but what evidence is there for that? Graduate jobs are extremely competitive and lots of strong candidates miss out. Many families from different backgrounds encourage their children to work hard because they know they need to stand out. Saying Asian students only study and don’t do sport, music or other activities is a stereotype plenty of them do both and become well-rounded candidates. Hard work, ambition and good parenting aren’t limited to one race or culture.

Of course it's not the case of all, but many. My YP goes to a school with a huge intake of both UK-based / born and international Chinese students. They generally don't do the whole cricket, rugby, hockey thing.

More the music (grade 8 by 10 - maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but many are exceptional), and are always at the top of the music and maths competitions.

Sorry if that's a 'stereotype', but I do I DO think there is a huge cultural thing at play here. I have friends (Chinese, ex HK) who said they were even brought up expecting to work 6-10pm every day after school from a young age. They said they'd tried to temper this - lived in the UK for 20+ years now, married to a Brit - but admits they are still a bit 'tiger mum-ish' (her words!). Everything is competitive but it is a shame as I think our access nowadays to an unlimited number of online tutors and access to mark scheme means that there are too many students acing the tests, rather than necessarily being naturally gifted. Of course, regardless of race, there is a bell curve and there will be the same number of gifted across these, but it's slightly skewed due to the cultural differences in how much is too much (academic) work!

There will always be a bell curve of ability across every group. Some kids are naturally gifted, most are average, and some struggle.
What you’re describing is really just different parenting priorities. Some families emphasise academics more, others focus more on balance with sport and other activities. Hard work and preparation don’t make achievement less valid.

Of course it doesn't minimise the achievement. But it does mean that there will be very able kids who are not progressed to the level they should be because there is such a 'race' amongst others. Plus in certain professions, it might be that those who have put all hours into studying to get to a certain level have hit their ceiling - I guess Oxbridge are partly now trying to introduce non-teachable entrance tests for this reason.

Competition has always been part of academic and professional selection. If some students put more time into study and preparation, the bar naturally rises.
That doesn’t mean others are being unfairly held back it just means the competition is stronger. Effort, discipline and preparation are exactly what most professions require long term, not just 'natural ability'.

So what if you are very able?

I'm academically gifted, on the border between moderate and highly. I can ace any unteachable test because I have a very high IQ. If I could be bothered, maybe I'd be a genius.

I am not at all motivated. I'm fine with that, I earn less than I might do but do the minimum required to do my job well and have no interest in advancing further. I have to really push myself to do enough exercise so I don't turn into a potato. I also have medical issues which cause chronic fatigue so combined with my general attitude I am completely unsuitable for anything competitive or fast paced. There's probably also an element of ND burnout which happened in my teens and I don't think I ever fully recovered from.

Put me alongside a person of average intelligence but with an excellent work ethic and the ability to survive on 4 hours sleep and I would be by far a less attractive candidate to any university or employer which is as it should be- they want it a lot more.

If your son isn't getting the opportunities you believe he's entitled to and has the ability to get, then he needs to work as hard as the people who are getting them. And if he doesn't want to, that's the choice he's made.

@BoringBarbie this thread is about young people not being allowed to apply for jobs because they are white, not minority, never been in trouble with thd police, parents maybe went to uni.

Your point that the ops son should work harder makes no sense. Surely it doesn't matter how hard he works, if he can't apply to jobs because he isn't diverse enough, and his parents don't help, what with them maybe been at university. Male or female he can't apply.

Our young people should not be punished . It its all about equality, and encourage diversity, everyone should be able to apply to a job that is looking for applicants.

There are not jobs that he can't apply to due to being white, that's illegal. There are schemes aimed at helping people from certain backgrounds to be ready to apply for jobs.

Have you rtt? There are many roles in the civil service for example which only accept applicants from a minority background. So if you aren't from a minority background, you can't apply.

Its not illegal, as our own government are doing it. Not that that means much.