To want Prince Andrew to lose his title and go to prison?

[Fandango52]

I read an extract at the weekend of Virginia Giuffre’s book and it really shocked me. I was aware - like lots of people - of her case against Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell and Prince Andrew, and also watched Emily Maitlis’s interview with Prince Andrew when it came out a few years ago.

We know that Epstein and Maxwell went to prison and I think Andrew should also go to prison. He raped Virginia Giuffre and lied about this, repeatedly denying he had actually met her. This would definitely lead to criminal charges for non-royals (even if the case was later dropped, as it often is with rape - which is another story).

I know it’s likely Andrew won’t go to prison - mainly because he is a prince - and I find that so grim. I know he’s lost some of his titles, like his dukedom, but I don’t think that is enough.

I have no connection to the case at all and no reason to be particularly invested in it, apart from the fact it’s shocking and quite unique, and because I think it’s hugely unjust that Andrew probably won’t be brought to justice because he was born royal.

AIBU to think Andrew should at least be tried in court - and if found guilty, should lose his titles and go to prison?

On the BBC website this morning from the co author of Virgina's book

Ms Wallace spent four years writing the book with Ms Giuffre, who took her own life almost six months ago.
She told the BBC there was a period when Prince Andrew "indicated he was willing to help investigators in the US" but he was "never available, for some reason".
"That's something he could still do," Ms Wallace said.
"He could say, as he has repeatedly, 'I still deny that I was involved... however, I was in these houses and I was on that island and I was on the jet and I saw things, and I know how much these women have suffered and I would like to share what I saw.

Let's just look at the facts noone can quibble though

• a picture of a very young VG with Epstein, Maxwell and Randy Andy. We can be fairly sure they weren't just there for a game of chess.

-Andrews palpably ridiculous lies about not sweating -.the tremendous payout to VG

• Andrew and SF continued friendship with Epstein

The exact details of how awful he was may be up for debate but the fundamentals of his awfulness are plain to see

That's a really good point too

You see I don’t understand this mentality at all, I’d prefer to live in a country that if you commited a crime such as rape of a 17 year old trafficked woman that you would be imprisoned and serve time for it.

He either commited the rape or he did not, what the court says is irrelevant to that actual reality and God knows the vast majority of rapists get off. I’d prefer to live in a world where that didn’t happen.

Andrew is a proven liar .
He vowed during his Maitlis interview to help the police . He didn’t.
In fact we now know he asked his taxpayer funded proection officer to dig up dirt on Virginia . Andrew had obtained her NI number ( US equivalent) . That is an illegal act in itself

For the shameful Andrew apologists on here - it was rape . She was trafficked .

We can expect to see numerous posts now smearing Virginia further and trying to imply it’s all lies .

Btw when Andrew was paid by the taxpayer to be a trade envoy he had multiple women sent to his room. On a so called trade mission

We know he was a close friend of Epstein and yet some will try to tell you that the revelations in Virginas book are made up .
Ask yourself why they are doing that .

Yes, of course - I completely agree. I’m just saying a trial shouldn’t be taken off the table as an option just because he is a royal.

There is literally nothing in what you've just said there that proves he's guilty. Just taking one of your points - the photo. Have you had sex with every person you've ever had a photo with? Do you think that every photo someone has with a 'celebrity' means they've had sex? It's literally just a photo of 2 people smiling. Why would he allow that photo to be taken if there was anything sinister going on?

I'm not saying he hasn't done it, but there is no evidence that he has. (Nor is there any concrete evidence that he hasn't!).

These actions should be carried out and they will reveal some facts.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0l7zx499deo

Unbelievable.

Thankfully your sort of attitude is rare today .

Virginia Guiffre was trafficked . That means she was raped . Trafficked women cannot give consent .
Andrew lied about having no more contact with Epstein . He emailed him pledging his allegiance and wanting ‘ to play more soon’

Epstein made various plea bargains so was in prison ‘only’ for soliciting sex with a minor- (while further investigations went on behind the scenes )
Fergie and the daughters went to his prison release party . And you are now trying to argue that despite all of this ( and we know only a fraction) Andrew should be given the benefit of the doubt ??
Have you totally lost your moral compass ?

The trial was taken off the table because there's insufficient evidence. Nothing to do with him being royal. It is literally her word against his. No case would get to court with that, whether it's a prince or Bill and Beryl from the Dog and Gun in Mansfield.

He did commit a crime in the U.K. He had sex with VG in Ghislaine Maxwell’s London flat - which is a crime, as @WaryHiker says in the post from 05:34 (having sex with a trafficked woman is still a crime in the UK, whether or not she is or over the age of consent).

Also, the dodgiest thing I ever saw on him was that footage of Epstein leaving his townhouse with teenagers, whilst Andrew peered round the slightly open door cautiously to see whether they had been observed.

There isn’t much evidence of many rapes, apart from some proof of lying. If anything there is more evidence here.

The FBI still have questions - has Andrew helped them in any way at all ? No .

Elizabeth Windsor protected him . Papers were attempted to be served and he was whisked around the various Windsor estates to avoid them
BTW the police cannot enter those estates to investigate crime . They need permission .

I see a lot of posts attempting to muddy the water . It won’t work . Just as the lie about Andrew having his titles stripped didn’t work

Only one thing will work to save the Windsors from this . Handing Andrew over to do what he pledged on video that he’d do - answer police questions .
The problem is they can’t ,can they ? They know that they protected Andrew plus no doubt there is plenty that the other Windsors don’t want raked up .
There is pressure now on the MET to investigate . Remember Charles and his money for honours and his bags of cash ?
Will it be ‘nothing to see here’ again?

She already had a financial settlement, why would she need more?

Does your life revolve around money and revenge? If not why would accuse someone else of it?

Why are you questioning the victim’s ethics and not the very dodgy man?

I didn’t say non-royals would definitely have criminal charges brought against them for suspected sex crimes. I just said it was less likely that Andrew would get charged.

Whatever Andrew has or hasn't done (and I agree that it doesn't look good), I think he has become the fall guy and is being used to cover up for many more powerful individuals who have not yet been named or implicated. It is still a disgrace that the only person in jail re this whole scandal is a female. Surely there are many men who should be under the same scrutiny as Andrew, and also charged with relevant crimes?

Two things can be true at once

Other men being guilty in no way mitigates Andrew

This.

It’s hard to credit that anyone could be so bedazzled by the royal family that they’d defend this odious twerp.

Disgusting that men get away with this, money talks and god know how many bigwigs are at it. Women and girls don't come forward with these accusations easily knowing what they will be made out to be and what they will be put through. Too many bastards getting away with this.

Who knows what the evidence is?

He either did it or he didn’t do it whatever way the evidence points is irrelevant to whether it happened outside of a courtroom, completely irrelevant. Human beings should never assess risk at the level a court requires, if a court found a guilty person, not guilty which regularly happens, that does not mean they did not do the crime just that the evidence does not exist to achieve a prosecution.

The actions of PA and his mother fr that matter don’t look good either way and she wouldn’t be the first mother blind to her son’s proclivities.

I believe Virginia. However I also remember that we’ve only fairly recently recognised sex workers as trafficked women.
Hostesses at parties weren’t given much thought. Grooming young girls into sex work wasn’t given much consideration- see our own cases in the uk.

Women appeared to throw themselves at him, given his position. His public image was quite different then- playboy prince, handsome pilot etc.

I’m not sure his behaviour would have appeared criminal at the time. Where were his advisors/bodyguards etc? If it were ever shown that they knew of criminal behaviour and raised concerns then he’d be up the creek. I’d suggest they didn’t because it didn’t seem criminal at the time.

Thank goodness we’ve become more enlightened. He’s in a category of person who would be slow to adapt.

Quite. Plus, we now know that Andrew was actively looking for 'evidence' to smear her name. What an unutterable bastard. Even if she had a criminal record or was a drug user or a party go-er or whatever else, it doesn't mean she wasn't trafficked and raped.

Also I have been reading posts on PA for years now on MN and most of them have been pretty scathing of his behaviour, then all of a sudden as VG’s book it about to be published out come tonnes of PA supporters who have remained hidden for years suddenly come out of the woodwork.

It has a lot of the hallmarks of the Johnny Depp social media onslaught during his American suit.

But prison is just never going to happen. There will be diplomatic processes in place to prevent him from ever going to prison. Remove all his titles permanently and throw him out of his 37 bedroom tax subsidised house. Let him pay his own way in life.