To want Prince Andrew to lose his title and go to prison?

[Fandango52]

I read an extract at the weekend of Virginia Giuffre’s book and it really shocked me. I was aware - like lots of people - of her case against Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell and Prince Andrew, and also watched Emily Maitlis’s interview with Prince Andrew when it came out a few years ago.

We know that Epstein and Maxwell went to prison and I think Andrew should also go to prison. He raped Virginia Giuffre and lied about this, repeatedly denying he had actually met her. This would definitely lead to criminal charges for non-royals (even if the case was later dropped, as it often is with rape - which is another story).

I know it’s likely Andrew won’t go to prison - mainly because he is a prince - and I find that so grim. I know he’s lost some of his titles, like his dukedom, but I don’t think that is enough.

I have no connection to the case at all and no reason to be particularly invested in it, apart from the fact it’s shocking and quite unique, and because I think it’s hugely unjust that Andrew probably won’t be brought to justice because he was born royal.

AIBU to think Andrew should at least be tried in court - and if found guilty, should lose his titles and go to prison?

Not at all.

If someone accused you of sexual assault, how would you prove your innocence if there was no-one else present? Are you happy to waste your life in prison for a crime you didn't commit?

Do you have a son? O a grandson? Are you willing to create a legal system that takes away their liberty on a whim?

Be very careful what you wish for.

Trump also has had very close ties with Epstein and if evidence is found that implicates him in sexual abuse and rape on top of his track record with being sexually aggressive towards women, (I don’t know how much he’s actually already been able to be pinned down in court with being a billionaire and president and everything) he should be tried in court too in the U.S.

Abusive men should never be tolerated in positions of power otherwise we are saying the abuse by anyone can be excused and is OK. It can never be OK.

YABU. I don’t like Andrew and I believe Virginia.

But in this country you’re innocent until proven guilty and he’s not been found guilty in court of any crime.

What you’re proposing is mob rule.

As mych as I detest the man, where would you kick him out too? Their British citizens.

I am on the side of the tens of thousands of women in the UK who are rated every year but don't even bother to report it because they know it will never even get to court. The women who are assumed to be liars or exaggerating or asked if they'd been drinking. The women who are asked if they enjoy rough sex. The thousands upon thousands of women who are told that the case is dropped because there's no evidence. That's where my concerns lie.

Agree
anyone can accuse , anyone of anything.
I’ll repeat that again.
Anyone can accuse, anyone of anything.
All without witnesses…. How would you feel op if that was You?
And Cases can take years ti reach court… while lives are destroyed etc

I'd like him to face a trial yes. But sadly that will take someone other than VG to make claims now. And given how she was treated and bullied I can well understand why others may not feel able to come forward

Come off it.

There is no age of consent when someone is trafficked.

No reason to believe she was trafficked? Do 17 year old American girls normally accompany their employer on trips to London?

But would you want an innocent person/ man to go to prison, just incase?????

I would like the American authorities to interview him as a witness to Epstein’s actions. That will never happen either.

I think everyone involved needs to be held to account. If Andrew is last man standing then we need to take a long hard look at whether we want a monarchy.

How many more threads on this do we need fhs? All quoting the same stuff! Clicked on it thinking there might be something new but should have known better.

Why are you so certain he’s innocent? He’s already proved himself to be a consummate liar. Determining guilt or innocence is precisely what a trial is for so where’s the harm in calling for one?

I meant in general not Andrew.

Women rarely accuse men of rape falsely. The trauma that a victim is put through by the police, the courts, the media, plus their own friends and family, means it's astonishingly rare that this happens.

I don't think you understand this. If you can't see any reason why the royal family don't want to go through a court case, other than 'he is guilty', you probably shouldn't get into these conversations. (It's nothing to do with this case, they just don't want a member of the royal family to be in the spotlight and his private life put into the public domain).

I am more concerned with the innumerable women who are raped and the rapists gets off scott free and continues to walk amongst us. Tens of thousands of them. You will pass rapists every day of the week, sit next to them on the train, work with them, pass them on your dog walk. We know this to be the case statistically. The number of innocent men in prison right now for rape? I'd bet it's close to zero.

Bollox. Women regularly falsely accuse men of rape. That is part of the problem. It's too easy to accuse in the same way that it's too easy to deny.

While I think prince Andrew is disgraceful and I have some sympathy for Virginia I do wonder how much of this book is a work of fiction. Sensational stories sell a book. The latest revelation is that her father abused her from a young age. Why aren’t people talking about that?

No reason to believe she was trafficked? Do 17 year old American girls normally accompany their employer on trips to London?

Indeed. Surely with her young age she must have looked just incredibly out of place?

So has she though, she lies a lot! Do you know that she wasn't allowed to give evidence at the big trial about this because there were too many holes in her stories?

There is no doubt that she was groomed and abused multiple times but some of her claims have been proved to be fake. It isn't her fault - her abuse started at a very young age, she is bound to be mentally scarred. But she became an unreliable witness, we don't know which bits are true and which aren't. The classic example is the most recent one when she made up all sorts of stories about the crash she was in.

@Meadowfinch is absolutely correct. Plus, the reason he won't face trial is that there is no case without Giuffre's evidence. That's not a loophole, that's just a basic evidential requirement.

This is the main thing that makes me question her truth. She has clearly been abused my many people, that is not in doubt. But whilst she's named them, she has made no attempt to go after them. No court cases, no private cases nothing... except for the very rich guy who happens to be a prince. The same with her family. They're now cashing in and doing media everywhere talking about her book and Prince Andrew. Why are they just talking about Prince Andrew and not her own father or every other man she has trafficked too? There's just too much inconsistency.

As far as I know she never reported the allegations to U.K. police, so there was never any criminal investigation here; that is the main reason he will never be tried here. Now she and other witnesses are dead there is no prospect of there ever being a case mounted or sufficient evidence to prosecute him. She brought a civil claim in the US and then chose to take a financial settlement out of court rather than proceed to try and prove that case. The allegations in the book are just that. Allegations.

Don’t apologise . The Windsors and their lackeys shroud their dealings in nonsense and hope to confuse the public.
Your post is clear and insightful . You see what’s going on here despite all the propaganda.

Nothing has happened to Andrew . The Windsors protect him is the truth. They all knew and they don’t care.