Was the sonographer being a creep?

[Owlmoonstar]

I had an ultrasound scan today to investigate pelvic pain.

Firstly it was external, like a typical pregnancy scan.

And then I was asked if I would like an internal exam, which I agreed.

During the internal scan, the sonographer (a man) touched my bum cheeks in a bit of a weird way.

If you can imagine the way your hand would grip the device, he then released his index and little finger and was kinda jiggling the skin near my bum crack.

He also did an in and out motion with the device, as one would with a dildo.

I don't know if I'm overthinking everything. It felt off at the time. But obviously I was just all kinda tensed up, staring at the ceiling trying to wish the entire procedure was over. Same as when you have a smear test. It's just an uncomfortable, unpleasant situation in general.

I just wanted to get it all off my chest and have some feedback really.

Having a scan, in an intimate area feels generally vulnerable, so I'm not sure if I'm being silly.

Tapping on the arse, no, a slip potentially, but should have been verbalised and excused.

I wasn’t there, don’t know anatomy of the OP but in some cases you may well need a quick glance to place the probe confidently in the right place. Once it is in you will be looking at the screen and there should be a sheet covering the lap.

Some sonographer will offer you to insert the probe yourself.

I had a scan recently and it was nothing like you described. My bum was touched at all. It sounds awful. You must let the hospital know.

I think men get defensive when they hear stories like this, because they fear being accused of inappropriate touch

I think this explains your husband's response OP, which doesn't make it ok but does mean you can disregard his opinion on this matter. Sadly his defensiveness on behalf of men as a whole has overridden his ability to support his wife so please don't let what he said make you feel stupid or put you off making a complaint, his opinion is irrelevant.

You really don't need your husband's permission to complain.

You really don't need to think of any effect on the sonographer. There is enough of that male protective thinking going around (including your husband telling you that you are overreacting)

Looking logically at the facts (which men are supposed to be so good at ) -

1. At best, it's bad practice to not have explained what was going on and not have made OP comfortable.
2. At worst, this is a creep who has got a nice little modus operandi going and likely has done this on multiple women and girls. Men like this only escalate.

If sonographer is nice guy doing it wrong - he needs to be told.
If sonographer is creepy guy doing it on purpose - he needs to be told/watched/sacked.

And the chaperone was really not chaperoning - she needs to be told too.

Therefore, in any case - OP please do complain!

@HereForTheFreeLunch has it spot on.

I would have been concerned at her ability to do the scan from there onwards if she can't locate the vagina..🫠

The ultrasound probe going in and out is definitely normal, it's to check for adhesions of the pelvic organs.

I have had multiple internal scans for endometriosis, and they have told me why they do this. As the probe moves up and down, if there are not adhesions, the organs they are looking at will move up and down on the screen.

Since pelvic pain often involves conditions that cause adhesions (and sometimes the adhesions are the source of pain) this is certainly something they would check.

I'm only guessing, but he may have been using his fingers to stretch your tissues apart, thinking it will make it easier and more comfortable to put the probe in? (Which would be another downside of a male practitioner: even if they mean well they just can't know how things feel). Edit: just seen your updated description of him tapping your crack. WTF. Ok, I don't know how to explain that, except him wanting to make his own hands comfortable.

Also, your husband is a raging misogynist who cares more about men's offense than your violation (whether that violation was intentional or not).

Chaperone present ? If not, straight to PALS. Chaperones must always be present for intimate/invasive procedures. This is as much to protect the sonographer/healthcare professional from accusations of malpractice as the patient to shield from inappropriate behaviour.

Mine was the same as this. The sonographer sat to my side just in front of the screen, I had a sheet covering me and she just put her hand with the scanner wand underneath the sheet and didn't look at the area at all.
My yd had to have these scans recently. She thought she was just going to have the external but they said they needed to do the internal one as well if she was ok with having it, which she decided to just get it over and done with. If her experience was the same as yours @Owlmoonstar I would have helped her put in a constructive complaint to Pals.
The scans are invasive in the first place, and you feel vulnerable even without the sonographer doing odd things. No one knows if he was doing things by accident or on purpose, but to be made aware this is what he is doing might make him realise and stop. That, and making sure the chaperone is somewhere that can see if anything is happening that shouldn't.

Clothing gets in the way, so GPs will simply ask for it to be removed. So I was asked to remove my underwear so the lymph nodes in my groin could be checked.

Squeezing hand and stroking hair is a normal part of an exam for certain endocrinological conditions.

Please don’t let your husband’s ignorance stop you making a complaint. My DH is a police officer who has spent some time in the Met’s Sapphire Sexual Crimes unit would absolutely support you making this complaint because he believes no one but the affected women can say whether a touch is appropriate or not. And a sonographer is as capable of being a pervert as a stranger on the bus. Your instinct counts more than anyone’s opinion. Even little children sense a good or bad touch and it’s adults who fear making a fuss socialise themselves out of that instinct.

Make the complaint. The sonographer will have had ample training on how to do a scan putting the patient at ease and how he should lay his hands. If he’s forgotten or thinks it isn’t important, a complaint will remind him. People complain against poor customer service from lowly paid and qualified attendants so you can definitely complain about a highly qualified professional.

And if your DH is annoyed by that I’d be having a very firm conversation that he does not have the right to tell you how and when is acceptable to touch you. He can either be supportive or just stay quiet.

I think I've had around 30 internal ultrasounds (unfortunately no exaggeration - the story ended well eventually), no sonographer has ever touched my skin externally doing this.

The do sometimes need to remove and reinsert the probe, but this would be one movement to readjust the image and not repeatedly in/out.

I think it's worth reporting this, if it was an honest mistake it's bad practice that needs correcting. And it might not be an honest mistake.

Sorry this happened to you.💐

I had a smear about 30 years ago, probably before chaperones. He was male.

It felt "off". Nothing I could put my finger on but just not right and have never felt that way since many countless smears since.

I have never ever let a man do a smear since. And never will.

Trust your instincts. I still think about it at least once a month. I wish I could report it now.

So I think you should report it, in a constructive feedback sort of way.

Ive hand one (with a woman) where they had to move it in and out a bit. I have a tilted uterus and she said she needed to get the angle "as comfortably as she could" it did feel awkward, because physically it does make you stretch and more lubricated but much much less uncomfortable than when ive had a less invasive smear. (I suspect there is an element of intentional "prepping" your body to then get the angle once its completely in so that you aren't damaged or in pain)

She instructed me to sit on my hands a bit in order to help with the angle.. but at no point did she touch me with anything but the probe. That said there are times Drs touch you appropriately so its hard to know if it was appropriate or not. If youre uncomfortable though id speak to the practise manager or your chaperone

I was groped by a doctor as a teenager. I was groped by a teacher at school. In both cases I immediately doubted myself and what happened. The doctor I went home and told my mum, annoyingly it was more pertinent to deal with the prescription for an antibiotic I was allergic to than the other part of the examination. It was the first time I’d seen a doctor alone and it was horrendous. It didn’t get reported, it didn’t get dealt with and I’ve always wondered if I made it up. The one thing I wish I’d done is report it. What that man did was not right and I should have been safe.

Don’t worry about repercussions or outcomes or doubting yourself. Just do it and you can begin to move on. He made you uncomfortable.

You're spot on.

And @Owlmoonstar your DH is an utterly unsupportive asshole, who clearly has no idea on what women go through.

Make the complaint.

Is a chaperone offered with a female sonographer too? Thanks

I'm only guessing, but he may have been using his fingers to stretch your tissues apart, thinking it will make it easier and more comfortable to put the probe in? (Which would be another downside of a male practitioner: even if they mean well they just can't know how things feel).

This would be horrendous sexual assault. The way you’ve worded it is beyond creepy.

Your DH response is absolutely NOT OK.

He has no right to invalidate your experience and gas light you.

Please ignore him and contact PALS about your experience.

I say that having given a measured response earlier and based on my own experience where I don’t think there was actual misconduct, but still felt upset and violated.

It made a huge difference to have my concerns heard and they have reflected and changed their policy as a result,

My own GP (also a man) is the one who actually encouraged me to contact the hospital.

Sorry but this lack of support and diminishing behaviour about what was an invasive and upsetting experience for you would leave me seriously questioning my relationship and what type of man I am married to!

The support from my GP encouraged me and I felt heard.

Imagine if your DH came to you with this experience? Is this how you’d act? No you bloody well wouldn’t, he can get to fuck with his misogyny.

Yes I was and so was the chaperone who suggested I could stop the scan at anytime, which I did.

Good for you! I think I've been quite lucky in my experiences, I'd like to think I'd speak up and ask to stop of it wasn't right but it must also be scary in the moment to do that, well done 💐

He shouldn’t have touched you but they do need to move the device around inside to get a clear picture.

Definitely put your concerns in writing, to PALS or the imaging department manager.

In all likelihood this was just a medical examination with no ill intent, but I think the following can be learnt:

1. The guy needs a more pleasant bedside manner

1. The guy needs to explain what he is doing, warn that the probe may move etc.

1. The chaperone needs to have more of a presence in the room and positioned where she (I presume a female?) can actually see the scan happening

1. The chaperone could be more friendly/reassuring towards patients in a vulnerable position especially when the sonographer isn't able to chat (maybe they are concentrating etc)

If these lessons are learnt, you may well help others have a better experience.

Or in the unlikely event that this guy DOES have ill intent, if nobody complains about him it may never come to light.

Either way, you're not "over reacting"

I was a Gynae nurse and chaperones were present at all scans and examinations, they were a prerequisite not just offered.